onewheeldave
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Posts posted by onewheeldave
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10 hours ago, sibon said:
There’s no coercion in the US system.
Everyone gets to choose what they do with their health. Finances permitting.
That's OK then, only the poor are coerced
10 hours ago, sibon said:The thing I understand least is that the anti-vaxxers actually want the vaccines to fail.
That’s a truly sociopathic stance.
Maybe one of them could explain why they want the one thing that can set us free, to fail.
I think to say it's the thing you understand least may be a bit omptimistic
The 'anti-vaxxers' aren't anti vax- they are either anti-covid vax, or [like me] anti- compulsory covid vax: that is one of the things you are not understanding, despite having been informed multiple times. The proof is the fact that both I, and several others [who you have labelled as 'anti-vax'] have actually had some vaccines recently- people who have vaccines are clearly not anti-vaxxers, even if they are critical of the covid vax, or, like me, oppose compulsory/coerced covid vaccinations. vaccines
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10 hours ago, sibon said:
That’s because the refusenik parents are indeed responsible for the rise in measles infections.
Not really, as many of them would have happily accepted the single measles vaccine had not the authorities withdrawn it
10 hours ago, Longcol said:Where did I say it could - although AFAIK it's caught up on about two thirds of cases. Now if we keep unneccessary covid cases out of hospitals it could do better. How are you helping?
Just like Top below, I'm helping by doing the work necessary to be fit and healthy with a good BMI and excellent diet.
10 hours ago, top4718 said:There are vaccinated people in hospitals, I'm helping by staying fit, eating healthily and exercising so my immune system can cope with a heavy flu and not burdening the health system.
Its a pity the government were offering kebabs and McDonalds in exchange for jabs, not really that helpful to the current situation.
Excellent point about the junk food bribery. Wasn't there also a 'free food' thing during the first lockdown that primarily involved junk food? One of the reasons so many are vulnerable to covid is the high percentage of the population who are obese/overweight, type 2 diabetic/pre-diabetic and/or with heart disease as a direct result of their overconsumption of said junk foods along with an aversion to exercise.
10 hours ago, butlers said:It's almost enough to make you come round to the US healthcare " system".
People choosing not to take up vaccine are seeing thier insurance premiums go up
10 hours ago, sibon said:I’d like to see a proper invite to the unvaccinated. Give them a time to turn up, and a bill for insurance if they don’t.
Of course they could still choose to not turn up, and not pay the insurance premium.
At that point, I think the NHS should be out.
You guys really are into the Chinese govt methods of oppressive population control by civil liberty removal, aren't you? How will you feel when you watch your children/grandchildren living in a totalitarian regime? Because once that method of population control gets going, it won't stop at vaccines. Criticise the party in power- that's OK, you've got free speech, but, don't expect to keep your passport, or, be employed.
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4 minutes ago, sibon said:
Do you get a 10k fine for not getting vaxxed?
The 10k fines were for protesting.
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2 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:
I think this is just to start people worrying about the flu. Don't forget that they have for years being pressing the elderly (and anyone else who they could convince) to have annual flu jabs. They also do not like the fact that, outside the elderly, there has been little take-up. I've refused on a number of occasions, as I've seen the effects on those who have had it. You are in effect injected with the flu virus, and suffer for a fortnight or so with flu symptoms. At least, my mates (aged around 35 at the time) suffered like that.
Anyway, Hancock said months ago that the "booster" jabs would probably be a combination of Covid jabs and flu vaccine. I've got the link somewhere if people are interested. Just think, if people are worried about the flu, perhaps they'll have the combined Covid/flu jab.... this year... then next....
What about people who want one of the jabs but not the other one (or can't have one of them for medical reasons)? Perhaps they've not thought of that one!
I've also seen references to combined covid/flu jabs- I think it highly likely that they will not only be offering combined jabs, but will remove the option to have the single covid jab.
They did the same thing over the MMR debacle- many of the parents who were being labelled as 'anti-vax' actually were not- they were just anti the triple jab and would happily have accepted the single measles jab- but the authorities removed it, and then had the gall to blame the parents for subsequent rises in measles infections.
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3 minutes ago, sibon said:
I do see a move towards freeing up those who are socially responsible. There is nothing new in that. If you do stuff that helps society, then you get on. Seems simple enough.
Nothing new in that- if you live in China, that is. For those of us who live in the UK, it is actually pretty new.
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2 minutes ago, sibon said:
I don’t see people demanding punishment for those who oppose the vaccine, or the sensible public health measures.
You missed the £10,000 fines then?
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Just now, top4718 said:
I just cannot get my head round people who are actually happy about lockdowns, its just incredible to find that people think like that.
Fear does that. The last large scale removal of civil liberties was post 9-11 when governments and media created enough public hysteria to justify it.
Now it's become apparent that their is something even more terrifying to the public than terrorism- bugs. Scary to think were it will lead.
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2 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:
Lockdowns for flu? I wouldn't be surprised Tbh.
Give it a few years and we'll probably have lockdowns for climate change too 🤣
It is looking that way- interested authorities can't have missed the fact that the public is way more gullible than anyone could have imagined pre-covid- they've not only let their civil liberties be removed, but actually have been demanding yet more lockdowns and ever increasing punishments for those who oppose what is happening.
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Just now, Longcol said:
Best thing we can do for the cancer sufferer is make sure hospitals aren't full of covid patients - best thing we can do for MH sufferers is reduce the amount of covid in circulation so we can get back to near normal.
Not really- the best thing you can do for cancer sufferers is allow them access to treatment for their cancer.
As for MH sufferers- stop torturing them with pointless lockdowns!
Our population is highly vaccinated, covid deaths are very low.
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12 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:
And looks like the doors are being opened to the possibility of lockdowns for flu.
'While No10 is confident that the vaccine rollout will prevent Covid hospitalisations rising to the levels that led to previous lockdowns, there remains concern that the NHS could be put under intense pressure from issues such as a large resurgence in patients suffering serious flu symptoms. '
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29 minutes ago, Longcol said:
that midazolam and morphine are being used in care homes to "bump off" the elderly to increase covid deaths?
No personal opinion on that one, having not looked into it. But again, I can see why some would be concerned, given that at the start of the 'pandemic' elderly were 'bumped off' by official government policy that led to many elderly with the infection being discharged from hospitals back to care homes housing highly vulnerable elderly people, thus guaranteeing many, many deaths [along with the various other scandals concerning care homes and other institutions housing the most vulnerable in society- the track record is far from good]
12 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:Again I ask: What would you say to Conspiracy Theorists happy to walk through corridors and wards looking for evidence of dead and dying?
In your hypothetical ebola pandemic, or the covid one?
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23 minutes ago, Longcol said:
How about the points that the vaccine is going to cause mass deaths 18 months down the line,
We'll only know in 18 months time if the vaccine is going to have unpredicted negative effects- personally I doubt that it will be causing mass deaths.
What I do know is that unlike previous vaccine roll outs, it has had no long term testing, and I suspect that is part of why many people are concerend about it.
But, to be clear, personally I am not expecting mass deaths as a result of the covid vaccine- my main concern is what will be happening in 18 months time with authorities compelling people to take various forms of updated covid vaccines/boosters by punishing those who refuse with sackings, travel restrictions, denial of access to events and social resources.
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1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:
If an Ebola pandemic did occur in the UK how would you deal with the Conspiracy Theorists spreading misinformation and undermining public health controls?
If during the Ebola pandemic the Conspiracy Theorists came on this forum and went on and on about power crazy Governments, fraudulent pharma, bribery, only nearly dead people are dying etc. what would you say and do?
What would you say to Conspiracy Theorists happy to walk through corridors and wards looking for evidence of dead and dying?
Given that you consider Top to be a conspiracy theorist, and, if you actually listened to one of his key points, that he, and the circles he moves in, have had very little experience of any negatives from covid themselves, and, thus very much doubt the offical narrative that we are in a serious pandemic; then it is questionable whether there would be any such, as you put it, 'conspiracy theorists', as, due to the large numbers of very obvious painful deaths from ebola happening all around them, they would come to a very different conclusion about the severity of the ebola pandemic, than they are doing about the covid 'pandemic'.
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2 hours ago, makapaka said:
But the number of hospital admissions for Covid has gone from about 40 weeks ago to about 80 now.
Sounds serious, that's a jump from around 0.005% of Sheffields population to around 0.01%
Better have another lockdown.
1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:His and your " ... direct experience..." is a tiny, unverifiable, and unreliable dataset from which nothing can be extrapolated except total ignorance of statistics and epidemiology.
Even the most shallow meta analysis of data collected by tens of thousands of individuals and analysed by thousands working independently show patterns which can be tested.
Conspiracy Theorists lack the skill and resources to assemble meaningful data, lack the independence of thought needed to analyse the data.
Yet Conspiracy Theorists still come on any media they can find and tell people their uneducated opinion- no discussion, no evidence. Any disagreement is met by insult.
Conspiracy Theorists feed each other comforting crumbs of information which do not stand up to scrutiny.
It reflects a total lack of the use and limitations of statistics, let alone population statistics, let alone medical statistics, let alone the use of statistics in epidemiology, as clearly shown in you attempt to make a comparison with Ebola.
No-one is trying to pass personal experience off as peer reviewed study.
Simply [and usefully IMO] asking people to look around at their direct experience of covid [or absence of] and compare it to what they would experience in an actual serious pandemic, then draw their own conclusions as to the validity of the draconian 'measures' enforced on the population.
If for example, there was a re-occurance of spanish flu [or, indeed, widespread ebola], their personal experience of seeing people in their circles dying would be very, very much more extreme than most have experienced during covid, because spanish flu was a actual serious pandemic
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10 hours ago, Longcol said:
Do the maths.
Approx 150k dead due to covid.
Approx 67 million people in the UK.
Your chance of knowing some seriously ill or dying of covid is...................................................................
I've done the maths- by your figures that's 0.2% of the population seriously ill/dying i.e. about 1 in 500
10 hours ago, Carbuncle said:You don't know that. You have also edited out from your account the stories of direct experience you have been told on this thread.
That's because he's talking about his direct experience
10 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:Your evidence is unacceptable as its limited to a tiny corner of the world and limited by your bias and refusal to accept the views and experience of the vast majority.
It is limited, of course, to his experience i.e. he has expereinced very little negative stuff to do with covid [excluding of course, the considerable negative aspects of the covid lockdowns and draconian 'measures' imposed by the authorities] both personally and in the circles he moves in. Same for me, and, I expect, quite a large portion of the population.
9 hours ago, Longcol said:" I work in construction where social distancing, mask wearing and general hygiene is very poor - no evidence of any issues of serious illness, we've had people catch the virus but they all immediately return to work fine after 10 days and report being ill for about 4-5 days with a heavy flu like illness."
In the context of an alleged deadly pandemic, heavy flu like illness is minor.
9 hours ago, sibon said:Let’s pick the last five years as a timeframe.
Which disease killed more people? Ebola, or Covid.
For those actually infected, Ebola killed way, way more than covid.
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10 hours ago, Carbuncle said:
(1) government ministers
(2) mainstream media
Who else is in on the conspiracy?
9 hours ago, Carbuncle said:I don't buy into your conspiracy theory. I do not believe it would be possible to secretly organise such a thing but you do and I am asking you to justify it by saying who is involved.
Systemic delusions not not require people to be 'in on it', just an infrastructure where people do what their employers tell them to do and a public who believe what 'the experts' say is true,however bizarre.
9 hours ago, Longcol said:But you ignore the 1% as well - eg the nurses who post on thread who have first hand experience.
No- that 1% is the cherry picked minority who see the worst cases in intensive care- to get a real grasp of the severity or otherwise of covid, you need to figure in everybodies experience of covid, and, as Top has pointed out many times, many people have had no negative experience of covid whatsoever, other than knowing someone who has had mild flu-like symptoms.
That kind of cherry picking is akin to putting the fear of God into the public concerning eating peanuts, by hammering them with detailed accounts of medical professionals experiences of children dying from peanut allergies.
Yes, it is harsh, but you don't ban peanut eating because a tiny minority are badly affected by it.
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10 hours ago, Janus said:
A 5th of England's covid hospital cases are aged 18-34.
One in five people being admitted to hospital in England with Covid is aged between 18 and 34, the new chief executive of NHS England has said.
In her first major interview, Amanda Pritchard told the BBC that about 1,000 young adults were currently "really unwell" in hospital.
That is 0.00146% of the population
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7 minutes ago, Delayed said:
I'll provide photos as itll prevent anyone from saying that what I've said is not true or no longer in place etc.
How about providing photos AND naming the place- that way everyone is happy.
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5 hours ago, Baron99 said:
We've plenty of evidence from a number of SF threads to conclude which individuals aren't the sharpest tools in the box.
Indeed we have- in my experience the ones who routinely trot out the 'conspiracy theory' line are the ones who also like to use ad hominem attacks, and that always tells me something about their rational abilities.
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5 hours ago, Baron99 said:
The title of the link says it all;
Highly educated people are less likely to believe in conspiracy theories. We've plenty of evidence from a number of SF threads to conclude which individuals aren't the sharpest tools in the box.
Bear in mind education does not necessarily equate to intelligence, especially creative intelligence/insight.
I'm educated to post graduate level and in my experience, education is as much about training people what they are permitted to think about, as it is about imparting knowledge.
That is backed up by these articles on the 'NASA creative genius test'-
https://ideapod.com/born-creative-geniuses-education-system-dumbs-us-according-nasa-scientists/
'We are born creative geniuses and the education system dumbs us down, according to NASA scientists'
[as you said the title says it all :)]
https://twentyonetoys.com/blogs/teaching-21st-century-skills/creative-genius-divergent-thinking
'The test results were shocking: 98% of 5-year-old children fell into the “genius category of imagination”, this number dropped to 12% for 15-year-olds and to 2% for adults. What the education system doing to our brains, our sheer capacity to imagine, stay curious, and being creative, is shocking, to say the least. All of us know that we are still sending children to schools and tuitions to make them ready for jobs, train them to test, and get admissions into colleges. What we don’t realize is, that in the process, all of us, and now our children are losing their most natural and precious skills.'
https://medium.com/@connect_75384/the-end-of-education-94f3a39fe97c
'The test results were shocking: 98% of 5-year-old children fell into the “genius category of imagination”, this number dropped to 12% for 15-year-olds and to 2% for adults. What the education system doing to our brains, our sheer capacity to imagine, stay curious, and being creative, is shocking, to say the least. All of us know that we are still sending children to schools and tuitions to make them ready for jobs, train them to test, and get admissions into colleges. What we don’t realize is, that in the process, all of us, and now our children are losing their most natural and precious skills.'
It is possible that educated people are less likely to look into what the mainstream label as 'conspiracy theories', not because of intelligence, but, because their education has trained them not to stray outside of mainstream narrative; trained them to mistrust anything that goes against their educational authorites- in effect, the label 'conspiracy theory' becomes a signpost saying 'do not go there'
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45 minutes ago, hackey lad said:
Surely thats a conspiracy theory wrapped in a conspiracy theory .
No, it's a question. One you can't answer other than by bleating 'conspiracy theory....conspiracy theory...conspiracy theory....'
1 hour ago, onewheeldave said:It is a good question.I'd be quite interested in seeing some clips of the speakers who weren't so extreme, but can't seem to find any.
It is highly suspicious that social media channels are clearly taking down so many clips and yet leaving up ones of speakers who fit neatly into the 'conspiracy theorist' box.
Does anybody have links to videos of the other speakers?
39 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:Yeah, far be it for me to suggest all the speakers were nutters.
But we know that there are plenty of non-extremists who speak against aspects of the lockdowns, compulsory masking, compulsory/coerced vaccinations etc- who are intelligent, who aren't denying covid exists etc, etc.
7 minutes ago, sibon said:There’s quite a discussion on Twitter amongst the CTs about why a certain group of speakers dominate the rallies.
Maybe its a conspiracy by big government to discredit them.
It's not speakers dominating the rallies I'm asking about, it's the media being extremely selective about who they are showing, and they're focusing on the extremists. It's more sinister with the social media, as they're not so much focusing on extremists, as censoring anyone who opposes any aspect of the mainstream narrative, leaving only those who will be seen as extremists and conspiracy theorists.
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5 hours ago, top4718 said:
The speakers were of an extreme persuasion which the media has chosen to focus on. I’ll ask again why are videos of the rest of the protest being taken down from social media but these are left on?
It is a good question.I'd be quite interested in seeing some clips of the speakers who weren't so extreme, but can't seem to find any.
It is highly suspicious that social media channels are clearly taking down so many clips and yet leaving up ones of speakers who fit neatly into the 'conspiracy theorist' box.
Does anybody have links to videos of the other speakers?
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10 hours ago, The_DADDY said:
With any luck they will execute him eh?
That'll show him..
🙄
It is a damning incitement of society in 2021 that a man is fined thousands of dollars because
"He was outside the State Courts after his court proceedings on July 2 when he was caught on video with his mask off"
and, many of the articles readers not only aren't appalled, but instead think the fine should be higher or imprisonment would be more appropriate.
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3 minutes ago, Longcol said:
Better updated vaccines than no vaccines if that comes to pass.
Stay on the point. I was simply pointing out that this-
7 minutes ago, sibon said:Vaccines solve everything.
All we need is an 80% vaccination rate and we are all free. No masks, no tiresome hand washing. Breathe on strangers. That sort of free.
is drivel.
Coronavirus - Part Two.
in Padders' Bar: General Discussions
Posted
Undeniable fact- it has had no long term safety testing, and, only long-term testing can establish 100% that it is safe.
That's not to say it is wrong to argue that it almost certainly is safe using methods other than long term safety testing, but, only long term testing can establish is is definitely safe [assuming zero corruption amongst the testing agencies of course]
Again, a reasonable question, but, be aware, only long term testing can establish definite safety, and, there has been none.
So there have been no previous vaccine disasters then? Because they were overseen by scientists too.