onewheeldave

2 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Sorry - seeing people wearing masks harms you.

 

But you put yourself in that situation multiple times a day.

 

 

I'm autistic, many things in society harm us- we have a suicide rate 9x higher than the national average. I go out and I deal with things. For me, at the moment, the mask situation is far from the main harm I'm having to deal with. I'm in a better position than many other autistic people, and many other vulnerable people- I know of several clients who basically aren't going out, due to masking.

6 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

 

 

They certainly can’t do any harm. So, instead of agitating on here and pushing an anti-mask agenda, why not put one on yourself and join the rest of us in trying to save some lives.

Well I've explained at length as to hw they can, and are, harming. You choose to disbelieve/disregard what I say- your choice. Nevertheless, repeatedly posting that they can't harm, is not going to stop me knowing they can, and do; or, communicating that to interested others.

6 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Minority is a pretty easily defined word. And yes, 10% is a minority. A big enough minority to impact on the health and safety of the other 90% though.

So, can you accept it is possible that 10% of people wearing masks don't actually want to wear them?

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

 

 

All  that you anti-maskers are going to achieve is even stricter lockdown if you persuade people to disobey the face covering regulations.

I'm not anti-mask. It would be more accurate to say I am anti-compulsory masking. And that I question the current prevailing mask narratives regarding efficacy

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

The need for fines is simple. To ensure that people comply. I’m sure there are a minority of people who don’t want to wear a mask. 

 

 

OK- how do you know it is a minority? What do you mean by minority? [as a percentage of the whole- is 10% of people not wanting to mask a minority?]

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

The need for fines is simple. To ensure that people comply.

If "The truth is that adherence to the mask wearing rules is astonishingly high" why the need for fines?

Without fines do you think adherence might get a bit low?

Just now, Longcol said:

You are scared of people wearing masks.

 

You visit multiple shops a day - where people will be wearing masks - and possibly in the street as well.

 

Finding it hard to believe both of the above.

I'm not scared of people wearing masks!!! You seem to have a real problem hearing what someone is actually saying.

1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

There you go again. Making stuff up.

 

You’ve no evidence for these sort of claims. The truth is that adherence to the mask wearing rules is astonishingly high. For you to claim that is because they are being forced to is quite simply nonsense.

So why the need for £100 fines? Why all the complaints on here about people not wearing masks? 

I've personally spoken to lots of people who wear masks but don't want to. 

11 minutes ago, Longcol said:

But yet you manage to visit multiple shops a day?

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/473199-coronavirus-part-two/page/157/?tab=comments#comment-8372026

 

Yes- what is your point????

1 hour ago, Becky B said:

I was merely pointing out, as several people had mentioned people not using masks correctly, that there has been information out there to show how they should be used correctly.

 

Maybe it needs to be more widely distributed, with TV adverts and/or billboards?

I suspect part of it is that a lot of people who are wearing masks do not believe they work [as seen from several posts on this thread] and are wearing them soley because they are being forced to. They know full well that they shouldn't be stuffing them in pockets and that they should be using new ones, but, they don't care, they'll just do the minimum necessary to  get in a shop without hassle or rising a fine.

Amongst the pro maskers here there seems to be a naive assumption that anyone wearing a mask actually believes they work- that's not true, for some, they are being forced to do something they would not, left to their own choice, do.

49 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

How do they get on with Burkas and motorbike helmets? Even hoodies if pulled tight? Genuine question.

You'd need to compare like with like. How would you cope if 90+% of the people you encounter from now on were wearing a burka/motorcycle helmet?  

How would you feel living in a society where it had been decreed by the government that anyone not wearing a motorcycle helmet/burka would be fined?

I'm guessing you'd quickly get used to it, just as you have with masking, be happy to go along with the governments justification for why everyone now has to wear a motorcycle helmet/burka, but a little thought should tell you that for those who don't go along with the governments reasons, or, those who are vulnerable in certain way, will find a world where everyone has to wear a motorcycle helmet/burka to be quite threatening.

1 minute ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Most people don't suffer from PPD unless you can prove otherwise?

You've misunderstood, I'm not talking about PPD, but about those who find masking distressing. I won't be going along with your incorrect and offensive implication that anyone distressed by masking is mentally ill.

1 minute ago, Arnold_Lane said:

The mental health of the paranoid few does not trump the physical health of the majority.

You've no evidence that it is 'only a few'.

3 minutes ago, Arnold_Lane said:

No you can't.  A person wearing a face covering poses no threat to you.  Therefore, your finding it disturbing is irrational.

 

You have linked it to the beginning of totalitarianism.  That is paranoia.

 

 

You are wrong. 

But, as I said, even if we assumed you be right, it still scuppers the 'wearing a mask soley to ressure others' approach as the stress and  ensuing harm to mental health is just as real, isn't it?

1 hour ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Yes, but that's irrational and caused by paranoia.

Well it's not as I can back it up with reason.

But, just supposing it was "irrational and caused by paranoia", it still scuppers the 'wearing a mask soley to ressure others' approach as the stress and  ensuing harm to mental health is just as real

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

 

 

 

 

I think we will all be glad when this is over. Until then, we all need to look after each other. You don’t seem to be up for that.

No. It's just that the subset of people I'm looking out for is a different subset to the ones you are looking out for.

1 hour ago, avalunche said:

Dave there is no need to consult a doctor or get any approval to become exempt.  Simply deciding you are  exempt is sufficient.

 

Here is the link to the goverments website.   There's even a nice card you can download and print off / show on your phone.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

 

Exemption cards

Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law.

 

Access exemption card templates

i know- I've directed several autistic and/or vulnerable people to that route- I assumed Anna would not be comfortable not masking unless assured she was exempt by a doctor.

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

 

 

I actually do understand your problems, probably better than you think I do. However, on balance, being upset at the sight of people wearing masks is a much lower priority than allowing  millions of people to go about their daily lives reasonably normally.

 

 

Interesting. What do you think my problems are? Why do you think you understand them better than I think you do?

1 minute ago, nikki-red said:

Why do you think they ‘wrongly assume’?

My Mum would be the first one to say she feels massively reassured and much more confident being out and about if everyone is wearing masks.

But you can't extrapolate from your mum being reassured to everyone, or even, the majority, being ressured. Seeing masked people does not ressure me, it harms me- I am far from the only one.

2 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

People refusing to wear masks affects the mental health of others. Maybe you should examine your own arrogance.

And people wearing maks affects the mental health of others [adversely]

Just now, Pettytom said:

You don’t know that. You’ve just made it up.

You don't know the opposite- you've just made it up.

1 minute ago, Arnold_Lane said:

 

 

How do you feel about women who choose to wear a veil?  Do they disturb you too?

It would if I saw hundreds of them a day and they were being forced to wear them.

Just now, Pettytom said:

I’m really not harming your health.

 

 

Yes you are- and making out that you have a better understanding of my mental health than I do is supremely arrogant.

4 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

 

 

I find it quite sad that there is a small minority of people who won’t wear masks and consequently put others at risk. It really isn’t much to ask, yet quite a few anti-social people find reasons to refuse to contribute to the collective good.

I find it sad that a large number who are wearing masks do not believe they work, and are doing so either becasue they are forced to, or because they well meaningly but wrongly assume that it 'reassures others'.

3 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

I wear mine to protect your health.....

 

 

You are not protecting my health, you are harming it.

10 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Why do you campaign so much for people to not wear masks?

 

Anna is ok about wearing one, but wants help to make it comfortable. So why encourage her to not wear one?

10 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Can’t wait to get somebody out of a mask can you!

 

 

I'm not encouraging her not to wear one, simply suggesting she establish if she is medically exempt. Personally, I would like to see a lot less people with masks on- it upsets a lot of us, and that itself causes harm.

8 hours ago, Anna B said:

Thankyou all for your ideas.

I can manage to wear a mask for the short time I am in shops, but I'm doubtful it does much good other than to reassure other people. It's not a lot to ask is it? (There again there's also the argument that some people find it scarey - a constant reminder of the troubled times we're living in... and there's no doubt our confidence and freedoms are being eroded.) 

 

I wouldn't trouble the doctor, they probably have more pressing things to do at the moment, and anyway, have you tried getting an appointment these days? I worry for the people who have serious medical problems.  

 

However anyone who has to wear one for work all day every day has my sympathy.

 

I'm glad that some on this thread recognise how disturbing masks are to some of us.  

4 hours ago, redruby said:

My guess is that it’s nasal irritation caused by fibres or maybe dust on the mask. Or possibly even just the slight pressure on the nose.  I think the smooth stretchy fabric ones might cause least irritation but I agree that they probably don’t actually do much other than reassure others.

The suggestions of making an appointment with a doctor about something like mild nasal irritation from wearing a mask go some way to explaining why it’s difficult to get a GP appointment (and was even pre Covid)

Interesting to note that Anna and Redruby don't think the masks they wear do much in terms of stopping the virus spread, and, wear them mainly to reassure others- this is actually quite common.

Let me inform everyone who wears masks mainly to reassure others, as Anna has already mentioned, there are many of us out there who, far from finding it reasurring, actually find the sight of masked public to be highly disturbing- maybe there could be more consideration of those people? 

I'd suggest you wear a mask if you believe they work, and be wary of wearing them to 'reassure others', as those others may well wish you were doing the exact opposite.

Of course, another big reason people are wearing masks, despite not believing they work, is because they are forced to. 

I wonder if, amongst mask wearers, the numbers wearing them purely because of being forced to/to 'reasure others' might outnumber those wearing them because they think they work?

18 minutes ago, Anna B said:

My masks (and I have several different types, ) for some inexplicable reason, invariably make my nose run. Very annoying, and I have to remove my mask to wipe my nose. Any ideas?

Tell your doctor- there may well be a medical reason, in which case you could be exempt.

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

The less of the virus there is circulating then the better it is for all of us. Masks can help prevent the virus circulating.

 

 

only if they are used correctly. Used incorrectly, they not only become useless, but can harm the user.

2 minutes ago, Longcol said:

 

 

There isn't anything that says you have to remove your masks between shops and many people don't. 

 

 

And many do.....

2 minutes ago, Longcol said:

If you want to remove it it's easy to to using the band that goes round your tabs and wear it on your wrist.

 

 

Or, as many do, stuff it in their pocket...

2 minutes ago, Longcol said:

 

 

And how many people's main weekly shop is a visit to a supermarket so they only need a mask a week?

I don't know, neither do you. How many visit multiple shops per day? [I certainly do]

1 minute ago, Becky B said:

There's information about how to wear a face covering.  Even a video!

 

 

No one is saying otherwise- simply pointing out that many of the public wearing masks are not following that information, and incorrect use of masks can be harmful to health.

28 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

 

 

It's a weak and dissembling proposition you  make.

You're guessing that masks are not being used properly.

 

You can guess as much as you like,but you cannot prove that masks are not being used properly by the general public.

 

 

Just as you cannot prove they are being used correctly.

In the meantime you could do what I have- look around at the people with masks below the nose, those repeatedly taking them on and off when going between shops, stuffing them in their pockets in the meantime....

6 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

The following is not high theatre..

 

A high degree of compliance will maximise the impact of universal masking in public. The global shortage of surgical masks and N95 respirators is a serious concern. In line with the recent recommedation by US CDC for healthy people to wear a cloth face cover in public [14], we strongly support the use of cloth masks as a simple, economic and sustainable alternative to surgical mask as a means of source control for general community use, so that disposable surgical masks and N95 respirators can be reserved for use in health care facilities. Such intervention is likely to be life-saving in many resource limited settings.

We've heard it a thousand times. How about addressing the point raised a few posts back, that masks are not being used in a safe manner, and my suggestion that it may be virtually impossible to use masks in a safe manner?

1 hour ago, avalunche said:

 

 

If you were to ask any medical professionals who routinely use face masks, they would tell you they are used and then instantly dis-guarded.    The way we use them, repeatedly, touching them all the time, adjusting, makes them utterly worthless.  Its pure theatre that we are wearing them.  Others who know more about diseases and our immune system tell us that what we are doing is actually weakening our immune system!

 

 

There are also many medical professionals who wear masks only because they are forced to, and, they have to stay quiet as, putting forward their reasons why compulsory masking is counter productive, puts their job at risk.

1 hour ago, avalunche said:

Its pure theatre that we are wearing them.  

 

 

It is. Well put.

51 minutes ago, nightrider said:

User error. Its not that masks don't work.

 

Its a major failure that there was no education campaign explaining how to safely use them. Also perhaps a major failure of our education system that so many did not think to find out how to use them safely (very easy with google) before using them.

Is it at all practical for the public to use masks safely?

Taking them off and  putting them on repeatedly as they enter/leave multiple shops means they have to touch the masks. The masks need to be stored [in a pocket?]

If they change to a new disposable mask each time, how many masks/day will they need? That is expense and, there are reports on the environmental issues arising from all the plastic in all the abandoned masks.

1 hour ago, avalunche said:

Or perhaps they simply feel that wearing them is pointless and uncomfortable for a disease that 99.5% of people survive, and that the government stupid edicts should be resisted not complied with? 

I Agree.