onewheeldave

From your linked article- " So far, reinfection seems to be rare - there have been only a few examples out of more than 37 million confirmed cases. Reports in Hong Kong, Belgium and the Netherlands said they were no more serious than the first. One in Ecuador mirrored the US case in being more severe, but did not need hospital treatment." "Given the fact that to date over 37 million people have had the infection, we would have expected to have heard of many more incidents if such very early reinfections with severe illness were common."

Which is where? Where do your figures below come from?

Yes it does! Go, to the link you posted hover your cursor over the dates in question, and for the 5th oct you will see deaths are 54 and on the 10th, deaths are 31

We don't need to turn the clock back, we need to start addressing the actual cause of all these deaths, which is the appalling underlying health issues caused by the modern western diet and lifestyle, which lead directly to people dying in large numbers from a virus [covid] which, if they had less chronic conditions [heart disease, obesity, type 2 diabetes etc] would be killing far less of them.

I know, so why are you saying when the link you've just posted has it as 54 on the 5th oct and 31 on the 10th oct?????

Yes- that is what I was referring to with 'outliers'

I get my figures from the link I post- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ which has 54 on the 5th oct and 31 on the 10th oct. I've always posted the link to the figures I'm using, and the peak was a little under a thousand. There are good reasons to question even that figure, given that people who died with, not of covid, have been classed as covid deaths.

There are lots of strange outliers. Look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ especially the deaths per million column- currently 500/day+ for the UK and USA, whereas in a lot of African states in is under 10/day. Of course that could be partly attributed to less advanced tallying, but equally, it could be due to the greatly different diet/lifestyle i.e. maybe the big problem in the advanced western countries is in large part due to their toxic diet and lifestyle, resulting in obesity/type 2 diabetes/heart disease and several other chronic conditions having become almost the norm- the exact conditions which it is known makes people infected with covid far more likely to succumb to it. I disagree that most cancer deaths are unpreventable, but I'm not going to get into that here. But heart disease is largly preventable and that also causes 450 deaths/day- obesity and type 2 diabetes are largely preventable.

Deaths last Monday [1 week ago] were 54. On Wednesday they got to 74. Today, 50. Not sure why you think they've trebled. As you know, I'm not ignoring the deaths that have and will be caused by the lockdown- via rising mental health issues, suicide, unemployment, lack of access to medical treatment etc- I think they are important. [As are the civil liberty issues]. If over the next 6 weeks covid deaths/day in the UK climb to 1000 I'll change my attitude towards the lockdown, but, at the current 50/day, I consider some aspects of it to be counter productive and harmful.

I would think that not many at all are dead, given that the total number of deaths attributed to covid in the whole of the UK, today stands at 50 [which is one ninth the number who die daily from cancer] https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ But very useful for increasing anxiety [and consequently, compliance] amongst the public.

I'm not questioning the condition, just the use of the word 'many'. What is relevant is the proportion of young people who get severe long term consequences, compared to the huge numbers of young people who get mild symptoms and recover quickly, or are totally asymptomatic.

Really? Do you have a link to anything showing that many of the younger population who do get the virus, and survive it have a much reduced quality of health and life [as opposed to a small minority].

But when looked at in hindsight, taking into account those who will die as a result of unemployment, destroyed industries, mental health and lack of access to medical treatment, isn't it fairly obvious that those numbers could well exceed any saved by the measures? This "many many many more dead" is nothing other than a tired, knee-jerk mantra that is only remotely plausible in conjunction with a head-in-the-sand disregard for those unfortunates who will die, not of covid, but of the covid measures.

Nope, a backlog due to the numbers of non-covid patients denied essential treatment during the unecessary closure of many wards [in reality of course, probably a bit of both] No, I said the NHS had come nowhere close to being overwhelmed by covid.

Usually no- nurses are notoriously overworked, underpaid, lots of unpaid overtime as, normally, the NHS is stretched to it's limits treating more patients than it can handle- very stressful job. However, with the lockdown so many nurses in empty wards had so little to do that..... dance routines/youtube. Some one actually acknowledges that a lot of cancer patients have been denied essential treatment, that is progress. Hopefully people can acknowledge the unemployment/ruined small businesses/mental illnesses that are/will be consequences of the covid preventative measures.

"Substantial increases in the number of avoidable cancer deaths in England are to be expected as a result of diagnostic delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic in the UK. Urgent policy interventions are necessary, particularly the need to manage the backlog within routine diagnostic services to mitigate the expected impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on patients with cancer." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext

Wards were empty, patients weren't allowed to come into empty hopsitals. I see quite a few consultants- they confirm what I'm saying here. You'd be surprised I think if you knew how many NHS staff think that the measures are way overblown and counter productive and harmful o patients. I'm not surprised, there were quite a lot of dance videos posted, a lot of bored nurses who could have been treating patients.

Anecdotes are easy- I know of a dentist who is currently working for a gardener friend, filling in doing gardening work.

Of course you can- the staff who were actually on the covid wards saw true horrors, I'm not denying that. But I'm talking about the patients without covid who are now unecessarily dying of cancer, and all the other patients with all the other conditions who could not get seen, and the coming huge backlog to overload the NHS in coming months

Not true- loads of empty unused wards, loads of 'telephone consultations' rather than actual treatment and face to face appointments, patients unable to access dental treatment, GP surgerys, cancer diagnosis, cancer treatments, heart patients etc, etc.

Again, spin. Utter rubbish- the wards were empty and unused [except for those few being used as intensive care for covid patients]

Matt Hancock- "The amazing response to coronavirus has only been achieved at the expense of other NHS services. The British Heart Foundation estimates that there have been at least 28,000 delayed inpatient heart procedures in England since lockdown began. New analysis published by Cancer Research UK has outlined as many as 2.4 million people in the UK have been affected by a backlog in cancer care, waiting for cancer screening, further tests or treatment. In addition, of course, there is the long waiting list for elective surgery procedures, such as hip replacements and cataract extractions. There is a risk that the NHS will be overwhelmed when this outstanding demand is tackled." Says it all really. Amazing how he's trying to twist the unecessary closing of these wards as being in any way useful to tackling covid, it wasn't, they were empty. Again, media presenting it as such- reality, nurses with so little work to do and so bored, that they post complicated dance routines on youtube; while patients go untreated, and some die [NOT the nurses fault- they didn't have any say in the unecessary closure of the wards]

Yes, Really https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/nhs-nurses-isle-of-wight-tiktok-video-dancing-a4402961.html https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/09/nhs-staff-performing-tiktok-dance-routines-to-keep-morale-high https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femailnews/video-2142866/Video-NHS-nurses-stay-positive-dance-amid-coronavirus-pandemic.html

The NHS was not anywhere near being overwhelmed by COVID.

Interestingly that article also contains today's UK death figure- it's dropped from 33 to 19 Also here- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2.176901153.522971448.1601853346-201961966.1585217610 Fascinating to witness a complete lack of interest in that highly relevant figure, while people rush around focused entirely on which celebrity lockdown breaker to scapegoat next and the ever rising positive infection test results. Meanwhile the deaths from cancer patients left untreated mount up, as will the costs of mental illness and suicided from the job loss fallout of the 'measures', but, again, no one seems that bothered about those stats.....