onewheeldave

Of course, they either comply or lose their job, hence why they're wearing the mask 'against their will'.

I'm talking about the ones who don't want to wear the mask, many of who are supporting families and with few opportunities to move to a different job even in the best of times, which these certainly are not, as jobs are scarcer than ever, and, the new job would likely have mandetory masking anyway.

You have my sympathies. I notice that all taxi drivers now also have to wear masks against their will. We live in crazy times

Fair point; on reflection that is not accurate. I'd say the majority were extremely ill (diabetes, heart disease etc], very old, and, a fair number of them would have died in the near future either from their health conditions, their advanced age or, whatever infectious disease they got exposed to.

is it supposed to? Why?

Yes, I recall refuting your confused claim. For whatever reason/s you do not listen to what I'm actually saying- try these https://patient.info/news-and-features/covid-19-coronavirus-what-is-an-underlying-health-condition https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/Guidelines_Cause_of_Death_COVID-19.pdf?ua=1#:~:text=There is increasing evidence that,to COVID-19.

So they're basically 'open' for emergency treatment only?

That's what I thought, Whiteowl seemed to be saying him and his friend have been to the dentists, and he/she didn't say it was for emergency treatment.

Are they in Sheffield? Which dentists are they?

No I'm not. I've spent much of the lockdown actually listening to the views of those who are critical of some aspects of the lockdowns, as well as listening to the views of some who are out and out conspiracy theorists- I can easily distinguish between the 2, and the former group is much larger than the latter. Due to the way that many of the lockdown supporters view reality, they tend to both focus only on the extreme conspiracy theorists, and, consistently misrepresent anyone who criticises any aspect of the lockdown as 'conspiracy theorist'; but, the reality is that there are a lot of very sane, grounded people out there, who know that there are big problems with these lockdowns. Not really, many cancers have excellent prognoses if the patient receives treatment.

You can go on and on about the covid deaths, in the absence of getting some idea of the deaths that will result from the lockdown hysteria, it's fairly meaningless. The vast majority of those 40,000 were in the main extremely ill and would likely have died in the very near future anyway.

But they are. It's killing people. And for some reason, while the authorites and media are pushing the covid infection rate rises and other terror producing stats, there is very little about the people dying from lack of access to medical care, and very little about how the coming mass unemployment will lead to abject misery, suicides and many thousands of deaths. UK hospitals, even at the peak of covid were far from full of patients- yet they were closed to thousands of cancer patients and other sufferers; dental surgeries STILL ARE! [nurses at the time were so bored they were posting youtube videos of mass dance routines in the empty wards- while cancer patients got no treatment!]

That's a good question. a) the answer can only be meaningful in comparison to an estimate of the deaths likely to result from the mental health/unemployment/lack of medical care access caused by the lockdown measures. Currenly there seems to be zero interest in those deaths, and, on this thread, zero interest in even acknowledging that they are happeing and will ramp up considerably in the future b) in the absence of the above estimate of lockdown caused deaths, I think it is useful to compare covid deaths to others e.g. currently covid deaths are 37/day- in the UK, deaths from cancer average 450/day https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/mortality#heading-Zero

You need to get a grip on reality- stop misrepresenting what people are actually saying. The majority of those who are anti-lockdown hysteria do not believe there is a global conspiracy to make people lose their jobs, get less medical help, kill people off- they simply know that there is a hysterical over-reaction to a virus which is leading to people losing their jobs, not getting essential medical help and will cause many unecessary deaths.

There are many out there who know covid is real [though considerably less harmful then the current hysteria is stating], who don't buy into the 5G stuff, who are in no way conspiracy theorists- just normal folk who realise the coming mass unemployment, mental health issues, damage to their growing children etc, etc, far outweigh any positive aspects of these lockdowns. Actually, being forced to wear a mask against your will is infringing on civil liberties. But it goes far beyond that- excessive and irrational measures have, and will continue to lead to massive unemployment- losing your job/career for no good reason is a major assault on civil liberty. As is not being able to access essential and vital medical treatment- many patients with cancer are going to die as a result of that. I was stunned earlier this week to find out that dental surgeries are STILL shut. That's just a few examples- I don't have time to list all the harm that is being done by this lockdown hysteria; sadly, all most people on this thread seem to take into account is infection rates and past deaths attributed to covid. Current daily death rate in the UK is 37- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2.138660150.408135901.1600762121-201961966.1585217610 and the coming deaths from mental illness, mass unemployment, wrecked education have not really started, but are almost certain to outnumber any lives saved by the lockdown and covid measures. I'm sure the same argument was used in Germany last century- 'having to wear a little armband is far from infringing on civil liberties; it's just an armband!' Look at what that led to.

Again, I was referring to the link to the rally provided by meltthe ball, I can't comment on the other link unless someone can tell me where it is.

No you're right- I assumed the link in question was that provided by melttheball in the post following yours, and what I said was based on that. You're saying the link you meant was a different link, so I withdraw my statement that you were misrepresenting, and apologise for my misunderstanding. Now that IS misrepresenting me- I've no intention of attending the rally, nor do I agree with all the views of those who will attend, I'm simply against the aspects of the measures that are causing more harm than good, and, those that are damaging legitimate civil liberties.

It's a link to a video? The rally is titled "we do not consent", it's meant to be a gathering/demo of individuals who are objecting to some of the lockdown measures, as they are an attack on civil liberties, and, causing a great deal of harm which is not being properly taken into account. It will attract a variety of people, including some who deny the existence of covid- but the majority of attendees will know that covid does exist- they just believe it is not suffuciently serious to justify the harms of the lockdown/mask compulsion etc. Some may well acknowledge covid exists, but deny that it is a 'pandemic'.

It's not a "Covid is Fake " demo- it's a demo against erosion of civil liberties and the harm done by the lockdown. If you have confidence in your point of view, misrepresenting the beliefs of the opposition makes it look like you can't back up your views with reason.

No, I'm just taking into account the deaths caused by the lockdown itself- those from mass unemployment, mental illness, cancer patients not treated etc, etc. As well as the consequences of civil liberty erosion.

You're joking, but the way things are going, I would not be surprised if it came to pass

Equally, if people had stop up against the lockdown in the first place, we might not be in this [lockdown] mess now.

Deaths in the UK have now dropped from 27 to 11 https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Evolution does pretty well IMO. I suspect that, when all relevant factors are taken into account, the positions of our mouth and nose are pretty much optimal. Where would you place them?

Again, that's not saying that 25% of the population are especially vulnerable to covid- it's saying that "We estimated that 1·7 billion (UI 1·0–2·4) people, comprising 22% (UI 15–28) of the global population, have at least one underlying condition that puts them at increased risk of severe COVID-19 if infected (ranging from <5% of those younger than 20 years to >66% of those aged 70 years or older). " When it says "We estimated that 349 million (186–787) people (4% [3–9] of the global population) are at high risk of severe COVID-19 and would require hospital admission if infected (ranging from <1% of those younger than 20 years to approximately 20% of those aged 70 years or older)." that is referring to the vulnerable- note they make up 4%, not 25%. You wanted names of scientists/experts who disagree/d with some aspects of lockdown- there are many, he is one of them.