onewheeldave

 

 

 

They are still their clothes. Again, most people who work have to wear clothes they would not normally wear. Suits, high vis jackets, steel toe cap boots. Being asked to wear a uniform is nothing different to being in the outside world.

 

Hi vis jackets/steel cap boots are for safety.

 

Suits are a joke.

 

Note how in the most dishonest professions, eg, politics, suits are a vital necessity.

 

Some people are sheeple who have an emotional need for uniformity, conformity and the suppression of individuality: they need to realise their emotional problems are their emotional problems and cease trying to address them by trying to stifle the individuality of others who lack those problems.

 

The worlds in a mess, mainly as a direct result of bizarre, but institutionalised, attitudes like those I refer to above.

 

Schools are where our next generation of potential world changers come from- lets encourage a bit of individualism and innovative thought, eh?

 

Change now, or forever stay the same.

Yes- I'd say that if it's raining, or has rained, or the lines are wet in any way, then however adept someone is at crossing them, there's a decent chance they could come off.

 

Good that you're not badly hurt- been lots of broken bones from coming off at the tramlines, plus, I believe, some fatalities.

 

I reckon if there were stats for serious injuries of cyclists coming off on the lines, that they would be shocking reading.

 

Just as disturbing are the number of cars/vans experiencing loss of traction on them- that's also bad news for any cyclists they may be overtaking.

I'm going to have to send them a new report.

 

I picked up a city bike from cycle boost today, thinking I'd try it out for commuting and see if it's better than a mountain or 29er.

Not even got it home when crossing the tracks in my usual manner, the back wheel slides and I'm on the floor.

Slid for about 10 metres I estimate, probably doing 10/15 mph when I lost it. Have a grazed elbow, bruised heel and a red face (from embarrassment).

 

So, officially not impressed with the city bike and the narrow tyres, and the thing weighs more than my 29er as well. I'll be taking it back next week I think and stick with what I feel safe on.

 

It was nice that at least 4 or 5 people stopped to ask if I was okay.

 

Was it dry conditions, or wet from the rain?

 

Does seem to be a bit of a lottery- I was very confident crossing them up till the point when, for no apparent reason (crossed it in my usual cautious way) I came off.

 

I guess sometimes they could have a bit of oil/fuel on them.

What travelling costs are you referring to it you're out of work?

 

Without knowing what your way of living is, somewhat difficult to comment.

 

You have your basic needs.You have a roof over your head.

 

If you need to improve your lifestyle then you'd better find a job, no matter how difficult that may be.

 

How do you expect us, the taxpayer, to fund your lifestyle?

 

You, the taxpayer, fund nothing. The benefit system exists to keep a portion of the population in full time work while keeping the less lucky appeased with breadcrumbs and beat down/humiliated so they don't do anything about it.

You see, Cyclone, there is one thing that has hampered this discussion throughout - Exaggeration.

The "mountains of poo" are simply a few bags, probably less than could be collected from the park on any given day. The "foul stench" simply doesn't exist. Now you want someone to lose their job because of this storm in a teacup. I hope you have simply been blinded by the lies and exaggeration, but I suspect that you may just be posting to get a reaction. If so, please don't.

This whole thing actually is happening "in my back yard". I live on the edge of the park and paid a couple of hundred thousand for the privilege. If I can put up with this "outrage", I'm sure everyone else can.

Time to move on. End of chat.

 

Chat ends when people stop chatting dude- not when you decree it

 

Even if it was only a few bags (sounds like it was way more), fact remains it's illegal fly tipping by the council. The same council that relentlessly prosecutes any citizen for so minor a transgression as dropping a cigarette butt on the ground.

I suppose everyone else who disapproves of what the council is doing is a NIMBY as well? Even when it's not their backyard?

 

As for who should pay, well ultimately, that's us, out of our tax. But someone else should also pay, and that's the person that authorised it, with their job.

Agree fully

:

i'm surprised that it took 47 years to diagnose you as aspergic dave. I clocked it within two of your posts on this thread.

 

:):)

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:30 ----------

 

I don't know enough about Aspergers to comment about it, other then to say that your skill at communication on the forum doesn't ever appear to place you at a disadvantage.

 

Yeah- I realised long ago that while I had major communication issues in live scenarios face to face, that online I could spend time composing replies and using my strengths, which are based on rationality. A few people have said I can express myself far better online than in real life

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:34 ----------

 

Regarding the frustration you feel, does there have to be a valid reason for people objecting to someone walking around topless in some public areas?

 

In the context of a discussion/debate, then, yes, I do think people do need to back up their opinions with valid reasons.

 

Especially in this one where a lot of offensive and downright prejudicial opinions have been posted.

 

It's discussions like this which can lead to toplessness being banned in public.

 

To most here, that probably doesn't sound that bad but, it's not a long jump from banning toplessness with no valid reason, to maybe, as in some places, banning women from exposing their shoulders, or legs, or faces.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:36 ----------

 

I

In fact come to think of it, I don't think I've noticed anyone doing so this Summer, perhaps that's because I pay more attention to the lovely Summery clothes I've seen so many people wearing, because one thing I particularly find appealing about our culture is the individuality each of us expresses in the type of clothing we choose to wear.

I've noticed the lack of it this year too.

 

Still, given the baseless insults and hostility directed towards topless men here, I'm not that surprised.

 

The other reason is likely that, given the steady decline in public health and rise in obesity etc, many men are probably too ashamed of their own bodies to take their shirts off.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:37 ----------

 

....perhaps that's because I pay more attention to the lovely Summery clothes I've seen so many people wearing, because one thing I particularly find appealing about our culture is the individuality each of us expresses in the type of clothing we choose to wear.

 

plus of course, the individuality of those of us who choose to go topless?

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:41 ----------

 

Your logic rests on a circular argument.

If the axioms are changed to;

Aspergers is a disorder

Disorders can be diseases

 

Then aspergers can be a disease (and in this case I think disorder == disease).

 

Basically, disorder and disease are just labels we give to things, formal logic isn't going to prove that something is or is not a disease.

 

Sorry no- my assertion that aspergers isn't a disease, wasn't an axiom, it was a fact. The opposite i.e. aspergers is a disease (which was the claim I was responding to) could be an axiom, if by axiom we mean 'assumption'. But if axiom means something that is self evidently true, then it can't, as it's false.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:43 ----------

 

 

 

Facetious. That's not actually going to help get your point of view across.

I know dude- I've pretty much given up on getting my point of view across to the current crop of posters- that would require them to have the will to engage in some rational discourse.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:45 ----------

 

Its a 60 Euro fine if you walk around with no top on in Barcelona.

 

So we cant be the only country that thinks its pikey.

 

Yeah. In some places it's execution if you're a women and walk about without a tent covering everything but your eyes.

Its just trampy.

 

I used to work on a luxury cruise ship and they used to walk around inside the ship with no top on. I used to tell them to put it back on. Its not skeggy

 

Oh dear! You poor people, the suffering you must have to endure

 

Listen- as previously mentioned I am aspergic, which basically means I possess the ability to to engage in rational thought, which in turn, means I don't suffer from the bizarre prejudice orientated mind set of you 'normals'.

 

Previously, I've been focusing on trying to get you all to address your irrational prejudices, but I now realise that's futile- too much, too soon

 

So, here's a couple of suggestions that don't involve you delving into/attempting to change/open your minds, but, instead, require only the ability to control your own bodies- you can manage that presumably?

 

OK- let's imagine there's a topless man in your visual field: clearly, he's not stressing you/causing upset- he's doing nothing wrong, simply catching some sun- it's your own irrational prejudices causing the stress, but, hey ho, we've already established that you're unable to control your own minds/emotions.

 

So, here's the suggestion- did you realise that you can turn your head, or close your eyes? basically, to cut to the chase, you don't have to look: you can instead, look somewhere else.

 

Hopefully, you'll then get distracted by something else (and probalby end up moaning about that instead)- it works for my cat, and, I believe, most dogs.

 

Give it a try, and, good luck

What with this years Tour De France encouraging more people to take up the hobby, is there any long term disadvantages, and due to the colossal amount of vehicles on the roads, is it REALLY a safe option to promote to inexperienced road users and children alike?

 

This is a report on the possible effects on the skeletal system;[/b

 

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/cycling-might-be-bad-for-bone-health

 

No it's not- it quite clearly states, in bold-

 

Now, before jumping to the conclusion that cycling causes osteopenia, I want to say it’s important when looking at results like this to consider alternative perspectives. Perhaps having low bone density means having lower bodyweight, and the reason pros have lower bone density isn’t because they are really good cyclists, but rather they are really good cyclists in part because of their lower bone density. Less weight is an advantage in cycling. Not as much advantage as in running, but runners have higher bone density for other reasons. It’s the impact and weight bearing aspects of exercise that increase bone density and mineralization, so the nature of running makes athletes have stronger bones. With that in mind, however, I don’t think it’s a big enough justification to assume that cycling isn’t potentially detrimental to bone health. At the very least it won’t help your bones.

 

i.e. it could well be a case of correlation rather than causation. at no point in the article does if even mention a way in which cycling could diminish bone health. At worst, it's saying that cycling may not have a positive effect on bone density/health.

Disorder is just a more PC way of saying illness AFAICS.

 

Well aspergers isn't an illness.

 

if illness=disorder, then aspergers isn't a disorder.

 

if aspergers is a disorder, then ~(illness=disorder) [where the tild means 'is not the case that']

 

sorry to be so logical, but us aspies are like that

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 08:50 ----------

 

Lots of arguments here about what is right or wrong in law. I just see it as a matter of appropriate behaviour. Nudity (or near nudity) is fine on the beach, at the pool, in one's own private space. IMO its not fine in the middle of a shopping centre, or in the bank.

 

I put semi nudity in the wrong environment down to a simple lack of taste or consideration for anyone else. We have a neighbour, who recently must have put in some sort of raised decking in his garden. The wall gives reasonable cover for anyone standing at ground level, but now he looms shirtless over the wall as I'm at the kitchen sink. Its certainly spoiled my view - perhaps I should pray for rain.

 

Perhaps you should deal with your own irrational body issues instead of trying to put it on your neighbour dude!

 

It's amazing how you people habitually try and transfer your own issues onto others- unless you address them, you'll always have them.

 

Your neighbours doing nothing wrong- he's taken his top up in the sun in his own garden.

 

If it was the 17th century you'd have been right at the front of the crowd watching the witches burn, wouldn't you

 

Maybe you need the research if only to tell you all autistics can behave differently for similar circumstances.

 

Wasn't me starting with the generalisations-

 

Aspies are very black or white.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 17:56 ----------

 

one son has aspergers if you need to know.

 

I've got it. I know first hand what aspergers is like- I am an aspie.

 

Lived 47 years undiagnosed and taken a world of crap- not because of the aspergers, but because of the prejudices and irrationality of 'normals' trying to impose their bizarre social norms and close minded rituals on someone who lacks the neurological equipment to see or follow those norms.

 

Now I know why, I'm feeling very optimistic.

 

I'm not disabled, I'm enabled.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 17:59 ----------

 

 

for what it's worth, I was actually on your side, defending you saying that one behaviour or another for a given circumstance doesn't mean that an aspie is out of order in his behaviour - they see things differently.

 

I'm not defending any more. Sorry if you're narked, that was not the intention.

 

I don't think you were. I think you thought you were. If you were on my side then, you would be now. Instead you've misunderstood something I said, took it as a slight, and now you're feeling a bit vindictive.

 

I'm not at all narked- I don't need defending, especially if it's that conditional and as far as I'm concerned, other peoples problems are other peoples problems.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 18:01 ----------

 

It was a mental disorder until 2013

 

 

 

 

I said it wasn't a mental 'illness'.

 

It isn't now and, never was.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 18:03 ----------

 

 

 

Now ASD is a mental disorder and Aspergers doesn't exist.

 

 

True- they've changed the classifications and no longer use the word 'aspergers'.

 

Aspies however, will continue to call themselves what they wish

It's all a scale though isn't it. Some people are better at being logical, others at being empathic. And somebody has drawn a line on the scale and said "beyond this" we'll call it a mental illness.

 

Aspergia isn't a mental illness dude

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 14:39 ----------

 

 

 

I take a change of t-shirt to work.

 

Bully for you

 

I carry mine in a bag, in case I have to go in a supermarket.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 14:40 ----------

 

Yeah possibly.

Aspies are very black or white. There could be a rule that says all tops to be worn in shops. Some will contest this as there is no logic to this decision. Others will adhere to this rigidly. The confusion then comes when they see a guy in a kiosk at skeggy in speedos. We can see the difference of why this acceptable and not contrary to the rules, they don't.

 

It's safe to say I know considerably more about aspergia than you. I'd suggest you do a few hours research.

 

So possibly not understand the societal norms that mean some people expect you to keep your clothes on in the street?

 

Yes, exactly- the 'societal norms that mean some people expect you to keep your clothes on in the street' have no basis in rationality: 'normals' can't see that precisely because they are totally geared to conforming to those social norms.

 

Aspies cannot see those norms. Norms do not obscure the rational basis as they do for non-aspies. Therefore the aspie can clearly see the absence of any rational basis lying below those norms.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 14:27 ----------

 

I think Dave has a glandular problem if he's sweating that much in 22c that he needs to take his shirt off to cool down.

 

I don't sweat much at all. But walking for 2 hours, often carrying heavy shopping (eating up to 20 bananas a day along with lots of other heavy, bulky fruit, requires carrying it home first), or being out of the bike, clearly results in a sweaty t-shirt.

I doubt that a t-shirt would stop you producing Vit D. They protect all that much from strong sunlight, you can still burn through them.

And I doubt it makes that much difference. T-shirts are pretty light weight.

 

makes a big difference- I always used to burn harshly round the exposed neck area, especially at the back- never was anything but pale and white on the parts covered with a t-shirt.

 

For that reason, I'm saying t-shirts do block vitamin D.

 

 

Is that what aspergers does, lets you see clearly...

It's part of it. High functioning autistics/aspergics are provenly better at rationality than non-aspies.

 

They're rubbish at grasping many social based communication aspects. I suspect that maybe though, it's that very processing power possessed by normals that interferes when looking at situations/problems purely rationally- they can't switch it off.

 

It would explain why so many otherwise intelligent non-aspies come out with the rubbish they do

Quite clearly a lot of people don't agree with you. So I'll repeat, the law is based on the wants and needs of society.

I don't happen to agree with it, you don't agree with it. But you've now been given a reason (if not a good one) why people don't think we should walk around without wearing a shirt.

I happen to think that they're misguided and that with a bit of though and discussion they might change their mind. But telling that that they are being prejudiced or hypocritical won't help you convince them.

 

I don't even WANT to walk around naked, but I think that the law should allow it. To prescribe what people must and must not wear is not something the state should be involved in.

 

OK- I'll grant you, it is an attempt at an actual reason.

 

But, like I said before, i disagree with your premise that "the law is based on the wants and needs of society" as I believe it's based on rubbish, prejudice and b******t

 

I have zero respect for stupid laws, hence why I oppose our bizarre drug laws etc.

 

But, it is a reason: well done, one actual rational argument in a 17 page thread

 

albeit, a reason that you appear to reject yourself?

I nipped down to tescos today and on the walk down took off the shirt to soak up some rays and ensure that my shirt didn't get sweaty.

 

Put the shirt on to go in and get the shopping (not cos it's wrong to go topless in the supermarkets, but cos I don't need the hassle that would ensue).

 

Came out- shirt straight off again, and, you know what- the thought hit me that 'this is f***ing fantastic!

 

In all that light and heat, I'm feeling fresh, not sweaty, I'm getting my vitamin D and basically feeling just great.

 

Felt a bit sorry for all those people not able to enjoy the feeling, cos they're scared of what others might judge them as being, or ashamed of their own bodies, or of such a mind that they actually believe the prejudices themselves.

 

As I looked around it seemed utterly bizarre, that, in this weather, all the men were in tshirts, sweating away, probably feeling hot and grotty.

 

What a bizarre world we live in.

 

I got officially dignosed as aspergic this monday. It's been tough living in the world of 'normals' and their irrational prejudices for 47 years, without knowing what I was.

 

But now I do know, and, I realise that our culture seemed insane, cos it is.

 

And now, I'm free of it- I can see clearly and rationally in a way that few 'normals' ever can.

 

And so, being shirtless in the hot son, as well feeling great, has become an expression of my new found freedom- freedom from your bizarre insecurities and prejudices.

 

Anyone else sick of the b*****t- join me, strip of your shirt and feel the rays of mother Sol: if anyone's got a problem with it, realise, it is their problem, leave them to fester in their own prejudices.

Which places, if any, do you think it is unacceptable to go topless?

 

jb

 

None- there's nothing wrong with the human body.

 

However, there are places I personally wouldn't go topless, including supermarkets, schools, cetain places with muslim communities, public transport etc.

 

Again, not because I think it's wrong, but because it would attract hassle and possibly violence.

 

Pretty much the same reasons I wouldn't, were I a black man, wander into a ku-klux-klan meeting- not cos it's wrong, but because it would lead to trouble.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 12:54 ----------

 

To extend your argument though, there is no good reason to require that anyone where any clothes in public.

 

I agree. I think people should be free to wander around naked. i think were that allowed, and, more common, a lot of our societies body issues and prejudices would be helped.

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 12:57 ----------

 

The law however, which in theory is based on the wants and needs of society disagrees and defines exposure of various parts of our body as being indecent and a crime.

 

No. The law, in this instance, is based on rubbish, prejudice and hypocrasy. No parts of the human body are indecent.

 

I personally don't walk around naked, again, it would just attract prejudice, trouble, violence and imprisonment- I don't consider it wrong.

I don't think he's said anywhere that he walks round in supermarkets with his top off, has he?

 

Thank you.

 

At last, someone who actually reads my posts

 

You're 100% right- in fact I've stated clearly around 10 times that I do not go topless in supermarkets.

 

(not cos I think it's wrong, but purely cos I don't want the inevitable hassle).

You're sounding untypically "shirty" today, no need for that.

 

Though admittedly the response was inevitable in view of my last comment, which wasn't meant to offend or be taken quite so seriously.

 

I'm aspergic Janie- 'normals' frequently perceive aspergics as taking things 'too seriously'.

 

The truth is, I've given damned good reasons why I go topless, asked people who object to address them, and had not one single rational objection to them, or even an attempt to address them.

 

That's on a 16 page thread full of insinuation and insult saying that men who go topless anywhere but a beach are undignified, rude, uncaring of the feelings of others, dirty, sweaty, fat, thin and a whole host of other non-rational prejudice based insults.

 

NOT ONE ATTEMPT to address the perfectly valid justifications I put forward for taking off my shirt.

 

Does that give you some indication of how frustrating it is trying to communicate with you people?

 

No wonder human history is littered with slavery, racism, witch hunts and slaughter of those whose only crime is to be different.

 

Do you not realise that irrational prejudice on a small scale (i.e. a man not wearing his shirt on a sunny day) can only facilitate the irrational polarisation that leads to the big prejudices?

 

If you must parade about showing off what you appear to consider is a great body that everyone needs to see.....

 

You're being disingenious. I've previously given my reasons for going topless-

 

I've been walking around topless quite a bit this year. Partly cos i have very pale skin that rarely tans and I'm finding that going about my business without a shirt definitly helps with that.

 

Partly cos I'm into health/good diet etc, and sun is an excellent source of vitamin D, which many studies are showing we are often deficient in (probably due to the amount of chemical sun protection we now use, and yes, I am somewhat sceptical about the skin cancer hype, especially with vitamin D deficiency being a possible cause of cancer).

 

But mainly cos it just feels really good- in hot bright weather it's a natural thing to shed the shirt- just not pleasant to have a hot sweaty bit of cloth on.

 

Fact is, the 2 main reasons, IMO, that people don't go topless in stunningly hot weather, is that they're either ashamed of their bodies (I'm not), or they're scared by what other people 'think' (I'm not).

 

It's sad that other people feel negative/aggressive/insulted by my choice to expose my flesh to the rays of mother Sol, but, if they have a problem with it, i do see it as their problem (as opposed to mine).

 

If anyone can come up with a some decent rational reasons why I should cover up, then I am of course, ready to listen.

 

(I do always have a t-shirt ready for if I go in supermarkets/shops, not because I think it's an issue, but purely cos I can't be bothered with the inevitable hassle).

 

I do feel very comfortable with my body- I'm in good shape: but I certainly don't go topless because, as you seem to be claiming, I want to show off or impress other people. I'm very aware of how nasty, vindictive and full of prejudice other peoples minds can be when faced with anything that goes against their fixed ideas of how things should be done- for that reason I'm aware that they won't be at all impressed.

 

I'm dissapointed that you've fallen to the trolling level- if that's all you've got, I'll cease to engage with your posts on this topic. If you do feel able to quibble with any of my above reasons in a rational way though, I'll happily respond.

They're are plenty of places to get the sun on your skin, without walking around topless in supermarkets and around shopping areas.

 

I'm extremely white and pale skinned. I do not have time available to lay in parks sunbathing to the extent that I would aquire either the protective tan necessary, or, the levels of vitamin D, than I can get going about my daily business topless/cycling topless etc.

 

As I've now said about 10 times, I DO NOT GO TOPLESS IN SUPERMARKETS

I've got a massive schlong that I'm not ashamed of. I've often wanted to get it out in public to "get some sun on it". I never have done though.

 

Because to me manners and consideration for others is more important than massaging my ego.

I'm quite considerate and I've got good manners.

 

But I don't pander to the irrational prejudices of others. If some small-minded individuals have a problem with the way I dress, my tattoos, or the fact that I take my top off in hot sun, then it is indeed their problem.

If it was up to some of you liberal exhibitionists with your let it all hang out attitude, more of us of all ages and shapes and sizes would be walking around half naked in public, what a dreadful sight that would be.

 

That's probably it, isn't it. Most of those whining about topless men are basically in bad shape and ashamed to be see topless themselves, so they don't want those of us who aren't ashamed of our bodies to be enjoying getting some sun on our skin.

What, in the supermarket?

 

Well, we have this whole Victorian morality thing still going on, where we're ashamed of our bodies and stuff, so we like to keep as much flesh hidden as possible.

 

And if it's a hot day, you might drip sweat onto the apple I was going to buy and eat, and that would be pretty gross.

 

No- the anti-shirtless crew have been moaning about toplessness in the streets and various other places.

 

Personally I put a shirt on in the supermarket, purely cos I know they have an irrational policy against shirtless men- I just don't want any unecessary hassle- I put a shirt on when I go in, and take it right off when I leave.

 

I don't sweat on apples- the only time I'm going to sweat is if I'm actually exerting myself. Possibly the fact that I'm quite sensible and take my shirt off if it's really hot, thus making myself cooler, helps with that?

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 14:08 ----------

 

Have to agree, fortunately most men have some decorum, and wouldn't dream of doing it.

 

Ah, Janies arrived- fantastic

 

Perhaps you'd like to have a go at my question?

 

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

 

If anyone can come up with a some decent rational reasons why I should cover up, then I am of course, ready to listen.

 

Actual reasoning based on rationality, rather than the prejudice and bigotry supplied thus far.

And, I'll just re-ask that question I posted earlier, cos no-one seems to have had a go at answering it

 

If anyone can come up with a some decent rational reasons why I should cover up, then I am of course, ready to listen.

 

 

Actual reasoning based on rationality, rather than the prejudice and bigotry supplied thus far.

Yes loads. More than you even. No need to take shirt off. Not in this country.

 

No reason not to take the shirt off if it's sunny either- unless you're sensitive to the prejudice and bigotry of saddos whos own lives are so shallow that they find pleasure in criticising others for doing something as natural as removing a shirt to catch the sun.