ECCOnoob

....and yet they still failed to come even close of beating the number of seats won by the Tories and even further away from securing a majority government. Seems to me that party membership numbers and real world voter performance are miles apart and meaningless. Always find it amusing when media organisations try to pursue that angle.

It may seem like a basic rule with hindsight but that's the problem with a lot of these things. The reality is that things evolve and the world changes. Remember not so long ago when Asbestos based material was the wonderous new thing. Perfect fire retardancy sprayed and screwed up in all kinds of buildings all perfectly legal until someone eventually discovered its nasty affects. In the late 50s and early 60s industrial workers in the steel, coal and gas industries worked in operational areas using heavy plant and unguarded machinery bare chested, wearing no safety equipment, no hearing protecton because nobody thought about the effects. It was hot and dusty and noisy but people just got on with it. Its what "men" did. To complain back then would have been seen as weak and infeminate. Could you imagine asking for some ear muffs because it was too loud in the 50s? They would have laughed you off site and called you a Nancy. Now of course, only after the ever rapid increase in litigation for nasty industrial diseases such as mesothelioma, chronic obstructive pulmanory disease and noise induced deafness did the world change. Back even further kids toys and our own houses were decorated with lead paints, our daily lives used to be filled with the use of solvents and CFC chemicals which are all now banned. The point I am making is that sometimes, as I would strongly suspect in this case, there is no single person or organisation to blame. Why the cladding was not fire retardant, I dont know. But there may have been good reason. After all, you cannot make every single little thing in the world fire retardant. Its just not practical. For the chiefs involved they may have considered the blocks to be safe at the time because most buildings are designed to keep a fire inside trapped within fire doors and walls. The chances of such fire at enough force to cause major fire up the outside may have been seen as rare to none. Lets face it, most risk assessments are based on a balance of probability of something happening. It can never be an exact science no matter how much money is spent or what people do. Just like the Kings Cross Fire which, following vast amounts of testing was caused by a phenomenon that nobody had ever discovered before or even the Hillsborough disaster which, irrelevant any arguments about blame, was the sole reason for a complete nationwide removal of standing kops. But for such incidents people would have carried on regardless because they would have had no reason to consider them unsafe operations whatsoever. Whether or not any of that applies in this case of Grenfell is a matter for the investigators. Nobody will know fully until that is done.

You of course thought exactly the same when Labour approached the DUP to broker a deal in 2010...right??

What makes you think your "question" is factually accurate. Who says that the Tories have had an "appalling" record over the last 2 years? You? Have you forgot that 42% of the vote share went to her. That's a 5.5% INCREASE of vote share from the 2015 election and around just under 80k more voters than Labour. I would certainly concede that TM does not have the popularity contest wins over corbyn nor the ever increasing celebrity endorsements. I like her for that. I dont want a Donald Trump. What TM is in my view is methodical, resourceful and quietly gets on with the job. She doesn't do big PR stunts or photo ops. She turns up, gets on with what needs to be done and returns to her office. Something a few more politicians should actually be doing rather than chasing the fickle world of ratings and publicity. Now, since this has turned into some interegation interview perhaps you might want to answer one simple question. If JC is so right for this country and so popular with the real people. Why did he get less vote share than May?

What are you trying to say, we shouldn't have referendums or elections because they cost too much? We dont stop the democratic process because it wont look good on the balance sheet. Jesus, could you imagine if a government tried to do that. Everything these days seems to be instantly compared to how many doctors or nurses it could pay for. In this insance its irrelevant. Elections are elections. The NHS budget is the NHS budget. Why it was called I dont know. It would have been discussed and agreed. May certainly will not have just done it on her own that's for sure. They may have thought they had good reason to. Either way, we have voted. The result is in. Nothing has happened which has not happened in the past and nothing has happened that will not happen again in the future. Corbyn still lost a majority my miles. The Tories have now reached an agreement and are still in the house. Try again next time round.

Why does Corbyn have such a excessive and Messiah like reaction from his supporters. What exactly does he have which supposedly makes him such a great leader and THE only choice to run this country. What skills and experience in and out of politcs makes him so good. What exactly is so impressive about speaking to the converted and making wild statements about what you promise to do in power. Any moron deeply embedded in opposition can make any statement they like to their disciples that impress because they know they will never have to deliver. When will people just accept that he lost the majority by an even more huge margin than May and the Tories. It shows to me that whilst the unions and students may fall for his guff. The rest of the electorate can see right through it. You bang on about the DUP having the Tories over a barrel. How is Compo going to get on with his 4 way gang bang of support from the SNP (who want independance from this union) Sinn Fein (who want a united ireland) the liberals (who have no party leader or credibility) and the greens (who think the world will run on pixie dust and fairy farts). You think a rabble like that is some how superior to the Tories deal with the DUP? You think two out of four coilition partners seeking independance is really going to be good for the needs of the country? Keep telling yourself that.

Wonder if they would do so much better without us English subbing them. I think its time the Barnett formula gets a shake up. This is not an us and them government issue here. The cause, failures, breaches, liability, litigation and redress is all still to be determined. Government is only one tiny cog in this catastrophic CHAIN of failures. This involves everyone from the manufacturer of the fridge to the highest office of the Prime Minister. To simplify it to a mere Scotland is better than us is rediculous.

Its how our government works. Why do people not understand this. Despite what every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks. The DUP is a valid political party in this union. They have just as much right to be part of this parlimentary process as the SNP, Green, Plaid Cymru or any other party. Its simply an alliance agreement to form a government. TM has not changed her entire political focus or handed all power to Northern Ireland. Such nonsense reports which are inevitably flowing out are just rediculous. Like it or not that's the rules. Those without a majority can form alliances with others or choose to run a minority. Happened before and will happen again. Agreements mean compromse. Yes, they might get some money sent across the Irish Sea but they have also forced for u turns on the the triple lock pension and Winter Fuel Payments which those with a more Red sided view should be jumping for joy. Lets be realistic. Its only the same if Saint Jeremy got in. Wonder what carrots he would hand out to the Scots and Welsh and Irish to form his coilition? I'm loving the way people and certain media outlets are banging on about the deluded fool as if he is a PM ready and waiting. YES, the tories lost a majority by 8 seats but lets not forget Saint Jez lost a majority by 64 seats. How much vote lending incentive would he have to whore out to get his power? Its just politics.

Was there a result to any of these "multiple" conversations with the council? Was there arranged payment plan? Did you make any agreements as to what you could afford? If there was I assume it must have been breached for it to have gone to litigation. The council doesn't just issue Court papers without a reason. If you were able to restart any arrange payment plan that would have been something you could have brought up at your missed court hearing. By missing it the council could be reluctant to offer the same again now however that is something you really should be discussing with them urgently. You complain about the cynical comments and people saying it's your fault but that's exactly what it is. When people try and question further to give advice you get all defensive. I really don't know what more you expect people to say. Only YOU by speaking to the council again, seeking proper advice and attending when you are told to attend at court will be able to resolve this. I'm sorry if this is coming across that harsh but there is no magic answer to this problem. It would be even more unhelpful for you in your situation for people to be patting you on the hand and only telling you things that you want to hear.

From experience. Back when I was between jobs and studying I got into arrears on both my council tax and service charges. I had various discussions and made payment arrangements where they adjusted my bill and direct debits to include a repayment of the arrears. I also know from my days doing legal Aid work that the council has protocols when dealing with people with rent and tax arrears and the advice on how to sort such issue is widely available from CABs and the council themselves. As I have said in my earlier post people in original posters situation are not unique at all. A fact which is proven by the court dealing with such cases on a bulk listing. The advice remains. The earlier someone actually faces up to the issue and speaks to the council the more they can offer to help. It will also mean that if the council is in the wrong they can correct it sooner rather than later. This is exactly what the original poster needs to do instead of trying to run away and make excuses.

You are getting flippant responses because of your flippant behaviour. Substantial debt doesn't just happen overnight. This has clearly been building and building and you would have had ample opportunity to try and resolve it by contacting the council to explain your circumstances and try and reach an agreement. They deal with people in your circumstances day in day out and always try to reach an agreement. That should have happened a long time ago. Clearly that hasn't happened because the court is now involved. Instead of attending a court hearing to explain your position you make some excuse about being fearful of what would happen, skip attending and making a completely ridiculous assumption that chucking a bit of extra money which was neither agreed by the council or the court will be enough to stop you having to attend. You've got to face up to it. Stop being all defensive by trying to blame the council and Court for allegedly refusing to listen to you. It's clearly obvious that they will have a very set procedure and you have failed to maintain any dialogue with them. I agree with others that there is something more to this story than you are letting on but I'm not going to waste my time arguing. Your advice is simple. Face facts get on the phone with the council and be realistic about what you have to pay each month rather than what you would prefer to. If that involves having to get a second job or temporarily finding some other source of money then it will have to be done. If you are summoned to attend court again stop making silly excuses and attend. The court could only hear your story if you bother to turn up to tell it. We all make mistakes in our life and most of us will always face some problem. Only you can get yourself out of it by facing up to it instead of hiding away.

Biggest factor for me is that Judge Judith Shindlin was actually a proper judge from the NY circuit. "Judge" Rinder is just a Barrister pretending be one. Whilst I fully appreciate the make believe world of TV it does make me laugh whenever I see the JR set. It screams US style carbon copy. Not even on the same planet as what a real British court is like. For most people unaware a real world UK civil courtroom would be most disappointing. Even more the small claims hearings like JR deals with. They are nothing more than glorified meeting rooms usually.

Seemingly it became a political debate when you stoked the issue by bringing up how many times you have attempted to become an MP, your alleged success at the last campaign, your funding availability, your arrogance that your cause is beyond any legal challenge and the council should fund it regardless and choosing to have a dig at your potential electorate for failing to vote. You created that yourself so you have no place now to complain about it. The comments you have received regarding a failure to do a basic Google search appear to be quite Justified. As a prospective MP you seem to have a complete lack of basic awareness of how the court service works nor taken simple steps to find out. it hardly put you in a good light to be a good constituency representative. You also seem to have taken issue with the court for failing to put you through and have complained that there is no number for the court you want - perhaps there's a very good reason for that - perhaps like most government organisations there is a very clear structure and a process to follow. My suggestion of a sensible approach would be to take proper legal advice from people with the relevant knowledge. I would also politely suggest that you work on your general PR skills if you have any serious ambition of making it as an MP.

Yes and when Mr Corbyn has maxed out the credit cards and emptied out the savings accounts to pay for his socialist utopia and spend spend spend philosophy then what's going to happen. Despite supposedly the worst ever Tory election campaign and supposedly their worst ever leader she still got the highest vote share from the last election and won the highest number of seats by some considerable distance away from Corbyn's labour What makes you so arrogant and cocksure that all those people are wrong and he is such a great way forward. Considering before being thrusted into the limelight he has sat on his backside for 30 years on the back benches doing piddle all is hardly a great endorsement. When will people get in there head that politics is a freedom of choice. That choice has happened. Biggest vote share get first dibs at forming a government. Just like it's happened time and time before. The Tories are still in charge get over it.

Jesus Christ. People have died and their bodies are yet to be fully recovered and already this has descended into tit for tat argument over Corbyn vs May and now HS2 has been brought into it. This is not a bloody politics argument have some respect.

Nobody has said that why are you trying to be so silly with things all the time. 48 hours after the flames and there is now a fire brigade investigation the police criminal investigation and there will be a public inquiry. Its obvious that none of that stuff can happen overnight. What more exactly are people demanding here?

Perhaps I like to have things like facts. Now unless one of you is a professional investigator with a signed and sealed fire report setting out exactly what happened in this incident and a formal conclusion as to changes to legislation required I don't see any reason to attack the government. I have made it very clear at the start of this thread that any form of political point scoring until proven otherwise when dealing with victims of a tragic fire is sickening. I am not playing ball on this one.

48 hours. what exactly do you think is being delayed? The people affected are getting support. Search support what's happening within hours of the incident. Ask for your lack of trust on a public enquiry who exactly are you suggesting should do it. The local authority? The building managers? The architects? The cladding manufacturers? Who would you trust.

I will suspect that social media is a big part of that. The expectation to get information on demand has created a generation of rather naive people who think the same instant and unchallenged demands apply to real life situations. We are in age of misinformation and public outcry and reaction takes more prevalent than practicality and necessity.

It may well be a crime but I suppose that is what the criminal police investigation is for isn't it. As for your repeated insistence that this is some catastrophic failure of the social housing system are you trying to actually say that this could never possibly happen in a private dwelling or an exclusive private luxury apartment block or a private office building perhaps or even a private shopping centre? I am not going to say this again because it's coming tedious - you don't know anything about the fire at this stage. It is a tragic incident and there could be a major overhaul on ALL buildings as a result of it irrelevant of how expensive they are or who owns them. Can we just stop with the Anti government hysterics trying to claim that this is some mass failure of the entire Council housing regime.

What exactly would you be protesting against? You know absolutely nothing about the cause of the fire, how it spread so quickly, whether any of the safety was against regulations, whether there be a civil or criminal negligence, and if so who was responsible. Until any of that is answered, as you say you live 200 miles away - it is nothing to do with you. You have no proof whatsoever at this stage that it is a catastrophic failure in social housing as you so seem to claim. You are simply making wild speculation which is my whole point. As for the rest of your waffle I'm not even gonna waste my time. You have proved my point perfectly. Anti Teresa May ranting and a load of attempts at political point scoring using a tragic incident.

Can't people just wait and let the professional investigators and fire services get on with their jobs along with the already started criminal Investigations by the police before they start with the wild speculation, rioting and trying to overthrow the government. It's only been a couple of days since this horrendous incident has taken place. The building is still smoldering and there are areas within it that are still to be accessed. Despite that, the sickening behaviour and political point scoring from certain groups of people has started all trying to win favour of their own parties stirring up hatred and creating a clear class divide. Absolutely disgraceful. Its just like this so called protest that is taking place this afternoon. Whilst I have complete sympathy for the residents who are worrying for missing loved ones and angry about what has happened - I am absolutely sickened by the amount of left wing organisations clearly jumping on the bandwagon as can be evidenced by the amount of socialist worker and other rent and mob organisations waving their banners around. How dare they use a tragedy where people have lost lives to try and point score for their political allegiance. What the hell has this incident and the victims of it got to do with them. This is not as simple as a good excuse for a good Tory bashing. When the official reason for the Blaze has been discovered it could affect tower blocks and even other buildings all over the country belonging to, built by or controlled by ANY political side. It's been two days. People have come together to provide support and donations with mobilisation which has been unbelievable. Politicians from all sides have visited site and the PM has immediately ordered a full public inquiry together with the existing fire services investigations and the police have started their criminal one. The government has pledged action will be taken and allocated their initial funding. The audits of any other potentially hazardous buildings has happened today and the local authority are already starting their work attempting to undertake the vast challenge of rehoming these people. What more do people expect to happen in 48 hours. Being angry is one thing charging a town hall with absolutely no beneficial purpose is a totally different thing. The focus should be getting these victims rehomed and getting on with the remaining searches for those who tragically lost their lives. It should NOT be creating a inner city riot and stirring the pot and using such a tragic incident as an excuse to try to overthrow the majority elected leader of the majority electric political party.

Sinn Fein have undenied links to terrorist organisations and have had several controversies with their own party members. Compo has met with them in his past and shown sympathy with their cause. Hardly immune from negative public reaction nor controversy himself on that one is he. Do you think that would stop him seeking their cooperation in order to create his 7-way monstrosity of a Coalition. Don't you think he would grab their 7 seats in order to have a chance at power. Like a shot he would if he thought he could get in.

You make a valid point and I agree that power struggle is the crux of the issue. It could well be justified arguing that the problem lies with SF if that is actually going to happen. Other stances could be argued that as the dup is a recognised political party voted in by the recognised citizens of this Union, fear of how SF may react should not be sufficient reason to stop them from being included in said union's political system including working with its prime minister. I don't know how many more times I have to say it compromise is not easy. I will also be genuinely interested to know whether people be causing such a ruckus if the dup didn't have his anti gay and anti abortion issues.

Yes I suppose technically you are right. You will need a different party to win a majority at an election and being as we have just had one YES I suppose we are one step closer to you possibly having a chance of that happening. You know it's exactly like 26th December being one step closer to Christmas. I muted in previous threads how you would react if the election didn't go your way. Certainly wasn't wrong in my thoughts.