ECCOnoob

Did anyone actually make comments and engage during the public proposals? Is anyone going to be attending the public hearings to raise questions or submissions? .....or are they just going to do nothing and then sit whinging and crying about it all on here. Waaaa why don't the public ever get a say. Waaaa why don't they do what the taxpayers ever want Waaaa it's not real democracy.

Yet, when Sainsbury's and Primark have done something similar - it's made national press with everyone has being "outraged" and "furious" and "hitting back" complaining they are being treated like criminals, making life harder and declaring it entrapment. Seems a pattern here. The stores can't win no matter what they do to try and prevent theft. That was outrage when stores increased security presence. There was outrage when they installed CCTV There was outrage when stores installed barriers. There was outrage when stores put security tags on lower value products. There was outrage when stores mandated receipts for all transactions. There was outrage when certain products were locked in cabinets requiring assistants to open. There was outrage when stores try to use RFID tags. There was outrage when they tried using facial recognition technology.

Going after the big boys and the professional shoplifting gangs, doing it to order requires input from other agencies far outside the remit of some security guards in the doorway. The shops themselves can only do so much and besides that's no reason for them to be stopping pursuit of the lower level so called 'soft target' shoplifters anyway. I don't disagree that more action needs to be taken properly to stop what seems to be a epidemic of shop theft. However, it requires action from the police force who are actually prepared to take the time and spend the funds to deal with these things, it requires a CPS to have the enthusiasm, budget and balls to actually prosecute shoplifting properly, it requires a government to bring in stronger laws and sentencing for people convicted of such an offence, particular serial offenders. It also requires quite a lot of the wider general public to stop treating it as some trivial issue and see it for what it is, theft. There needs to be far less of 'oh well it's only a £1 pack of chips' or 'everyone sneaks stuff through' or 'who cares since the shops are ripping us off anyway' or 'serves them right for bringing in self-checkouts' or excuse making nonsense like 'its the cost of living crisis' or 'they're only stealing to feed their family'...

Perhaps not. But it all helps even if it just stops the 'unprofessional' ones and or the chancers trying their luck or the "absent minded" who "totally innocently" pack three t-shirts but only get one scanned or those at the self checkout who press plain bread roll for a luxury chocolate muffin or those who just happen to "forget" to put the pack of batteries in their basket instead it falls into their shopping bag. There is little denying that shoplifting is rife right now. Its seeing it's biggest increase for decades. It's only right that retailers bring action to protect their assets because after all it's us consumers that end up paying more when stolen or underpaid items are flying off the shelves.

Yes, applying your slightly exaggerated and unlikely scenario, I probably would be a bit bothered about it. However, getting red faced on the odd occasion is very different to playing victim feeling 'insulted' by a guard doing their job and boycotting an entire retail chain. That, as I keep maintaining, in my opinion, is an overreaction.

Fine. So that comes back to the question. Why is it any different to what happens with random checks to personal bags made by security staff when going into some entertainment venues or some tourist attractions venues or entering some office buildings or being picked out by airport customs. Surely all has the same level of embarrassment or not. Does that mean it's a reasonable and proportionate reaction for people to also boycott those venues. Personally, I don't think it is.

But the main topic on the discussion here is shopping bags. I'm sorry but I just don't get it. If someone can hold their embarrassment enough to be purchasing, let's call them intimate products, from a shop, select them from the shelves, walk around with them in their basket or trolley, whilst under constant surveillance and filming from cameras, giving them to an assistant at the till......how is that any more or less embarrassing than a security guard asking to see a receipt and having a quick check in a bag on exiting. Do they really think the security guard is going to care. Do they think the security guard is going to call them out in front of everyone laughing and pointing about the fact they've got femfresh or jumbo pack of condoms or pile cream in their bag.

Again with this "feeling insulted". If the security guard selected a provable biased targeted profile every day. Or if a guard dramatically grabbed someone by scuff of the neck, shouting 'stop thief' screaming at the top of her voice for them to open their bags and then proceed to name call and mock their clothes and purchases - then yes there is cause for complaint. A security guard politely asking a random selection of customers to produce their receipt and have a cursory checking a bag before sending them their way is a whole different matter. IMO anyone who thinks takes the latter as 'insulting' and boycotts an entire retail group over it is completely overreacting.

Again with this "feeling insulted". If the security guard selected a provable biased targeted profile every day. Or if a guard dramatically grabbed someone by scuff of the neck, shouting 'stop thief' screaming at the top of her voice for them to open their bags and then proceed to name call and mock their clothes and purchases - then yes there is cause for complaint. A security guard politely asking a andom selection of customers to produce their receipt and have a cursory checking a bag before sending them their way is a whole different matter. IMO anyone who thinks takes the latter as 'insulting' and boycotts an entire retail group over it is completely overreacting.

?? My response was to MisterM. You running two accounts??

They are. But as this is a discussion forum, people are also entitled to comment back.

I have seen the above and it still barely makes any sense. Regardless, you haven't really provided a sufficient explanation of why you feel "insulted" by a routine check from a security guard doing their job. What are you going to do if it happens on other occasions, boycott every shop on the high street until you run out? How do you feel if you get randomly selected for recheck at a self checkout.... or if you just happened to be in the same aisle as a security guard? Do you feel just as "insulted" when you are were walking to the store and the camera starts glowing red and turns in your direction as you pass it? How about when a person behind the counter chooses to check your bank note or runs it under a UV light? Are you going to cry and whinge if you are randomly selected for a customs check at the airport - vouching you will never step foot in that airport again? Will you be robustly objecting to a random search because there may be frilly knickers or thrush cream in your bag that might be embarrassing, hmmm, might ultimately be a bit less embarrassing than rubber gloves time.....

Ha. Looks like their "vow" in post #5 lasted long then. Almost as if their cries of feeling "insulted" was just a load of over reactionary nonsense.

No but you were making comments like "...Lesson learned, do you drive into the city. if you do then don't anymore" Comments like "....for those of you who dare enter the city centre", Comments like "...There's no advance warning of the bus gate on Rockingham Street and the first warning sign is just before the junction at the top of The Moor..." Sounds like excuse making to me. Sounds like attempts to suggest or otherwise imply the sneaky council are deliberately tricking drivers and making it impossibly complicated for anyone to drive into the city. I dont like city bashing for the sake of it and that's what I felt you were doing so responded accordingly. Sorry but this is a discussion forum. Its what its for.

Says who? Besides we are far from a "small city". We are still the 7th biggest by population numbers, 6th biggest city regional area and 9th biggest size geographically. Last year our city economic growth rate was at 12.4% making Sheffield the second fastest growing economy in the country and fourth largest in student accommodation numbers. A city centre is not just some shopping mall.

Not many - but it may have escaped your attention that traditional high street shopping has been in major decline for decades across the planet. We have things called out of town shopping parks. We have something called the internet these days. That is the exact reason why cities all over are evolving.

Redeveloped what was an empty, decaying ugly building former home to a long moved away tile supplier and kitchenware showroom. Brought additional student accommodation facilities to feed the ever hungry and demanding market. Brought some life to the area and help business to the nearby opened food, drinks and leisure facilities.

I am well aware were Camden and Islington are. I was responding to your nonsense that residential = undesirable to visitors and attracts trouble. Do you want a reminder what you said in post #26. Stop trying to move the goalposts when you get called out.

Why? Are they going to be redrawing the borders or something. Or perhaps you are one of those with the delusion that a "city centre" only counts if its Shops and Restaurants. Do you also think that Central London is just Oxford Street and Piccadilly Circus. Do you think downtown New York just consists of Times Sq, Macys and the Empire State,

So tales from your acquaintances somehow get mangled in your mind to all types of apartment living become desolate no go areas. Go visit cities like New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Toronto, Singapore, Tokyo, Dubai. Closer to home, go look at some places around Camden, Angel, Islington, Shoreditch Spitalfields, Mailbox and St Pauls areas in Birmingham, Spinningfields and Deansgate in Manchester and even our own West One, HOC2, St Pauls and Kelham Island developments. Areas filled with student and/or private residential apartments alongside a facilities, shopping and nightlife attracting both locals and visitors. Not particularly - just do what I have always done. Call out obvious bull.

How would you know? Did you have observations of life on Kelvin from within the womb or something. They were demolished in 1995. Mrs "28 years old".

Advice? Maybe stop trying to blame the city for your own mistake. Maybe stop wallowing in the past being surprised that things have changed over your 56 years of driving. Maybe hand in your driving licence if you were totally oblivious to a large sign before the traffic lights saying other traffic must turn left, a big painted arrow on the ground before the lights saying turn left, a sign warning of bus gate cameras ahead before the traffic lights, a sign on the traffic lights themselves saying except cycles, a coloured marking on the ground after the lights identifying the gate with bus gate wording and two further signs on either side of the bus gate themselves expressly setting out what vehicles are permitted and also warning of cameras.

I'm starting to think she has a shareholding in greene king given the amount she keeps banging on about it.

Oh you mean the block that only got completed in November and already has people living in it. Better get to Specsavers love. Talking out of your arse again with your delusion that everyone just longs for a nice semi with a garden and driveway. You live in a city. Cities have vast numbers of densely packed population with a large majority living in apartments. A pattern mirrored in cities across the planet. It's been reported that demands for apartments have increased 8 to 10% and developing changes in the make up of households with more single persons, young professionals and couples without children wanting to be in smaller living spaces with nearby facilities. That's before we get onto the student apartment market with construction industry reports saying that they can barely keep up with building to meet the demand. You just stick to the sandwich making.

What empty apartments?