ECCOnoob

I'm not sure I understand what's disgusting. Meadowhall are not a hotel they are not a homeless shelter or the red cross or the national health service. They don't own nor control any of the stock or supplies in which to give out to people. The flooding is not the fault of meadowhall it's a natural occurrence from extreme weather conditions. It caught everyone off guard including the centre. The police were the ones who forced people back inside until it was safe for them to leave. Meadowhall reacted as best they could. Im sure it is inconvenient that people may have had to buy food or a few basic supplies but that's just part of life. It was just as inconvenient for those of us whose bus routes and tram routes suddenly stopped running and were supposed to find spend money on alternative ways home or for those of us who had to find and pay for alternative accommodation because we couldn't get home. I really don't get what voting with your feet will achieve as it's completely against the wrong target.

Oh wow. An opinion piece from an unidentified writer published on a glorified blog site with a well-known bias against any form of mainstream media. Yes that really is the kind of source we should be taking seriously 🙄. Is that really the best you can do. The only brainwashed round here are the momentum morons and corbynites who cannot deal with well-deserved criticism brought against their glorious leader. Thankfully the wider population see him for what he is.

Such as what? It's all nice and easy to sit there complaining but coming up with actual solutions which are reasonable, desirable and practicable is a different matter. If people criticise ticking a box every five years as "not real democracy" what alternative do they want and would they actually engage with it if it was implemented? You hit the key word which is "inclination" when describing the electorate. The reality is politics is boring and a majority of people just don't care. That completely outweighs any criticism of the establishment or criticism of the media. It's irrelevant. The bottom line is not enough of us real ordinary people care. Never have done. Never will do. Time and time again I see people, the press and the internet bleating on about a lack of so called true democracy or a lack of transparency or a lack of public engagement and yet these are the same people who who would never be seen dead turning up at town hall meeting or spending time reading the latest committee minutes which are publicly available or regularly engaging with their local MP or spend time giving their opinions on a public consultations or spend time engaging in research projects by census takers or opinion companies or tuning the television to absorb the numerous live debates in the house on the parliament channel broadcast all day every day or bothering to subscribe to the Hansard blogs, transcripts or other daily resources which are prepared following each session........ Given that a large number of people don't even bother with the elections when they are merely every 5 years or so is there really such a great demand for change that you seem to think. According to reports they say that brexit was one of the biggest and most important political decisions we have had for decades and yet there was still nearly 30% of the registered electorate didn't bother voting. If you can't drag people out to vote on such a vitally important issue it is going to be one hell of an uphill battle trying to increase engagement in politics from the people.

From what I have read in The Star it's not quite like that. It seems to be more about the leaseholder suddenly deciding to surrender the lease and nothing to Hilton themselves. I have not seen or heard any rumour about CMS though. I thought the HSBC building is already full with HSBC staff. Looking at the size of the cms building they will need bigger than that surely.

Called it. Said that this would happen. These morons have gone too far. Its no longer a legitimate protest to raise awareness. Its now turned into deliberate public disruption and the public are fighting back. You can only push people too far before they snap. XR credibility is shot. Even their publicity whore celebrity followers have been forced to eat humble pie.

What trauma?? Anyone with a brain will have the common sense to know the likely locations of public toilets in the middle of a city. Round and round this thread goes with people desperately trying to demonstrate a problem that simply doesn't exist.

What a load of rubbish. Don't old people visit shops or pubs or cafes or libraries or the town hall or the galleries or the market hall or the theatres or the cinemas or the bus stations or the train station. They must obviously walk by all those ample toilets available to them and just aimlessly wander around the streets all day.

Lots of people have IBS, bladder and bowel functions and cope. It just takes a little planning, a little common sense, a little observation. If you're in town for for work, shopping, dining, drinking, travelling, studying or leisure activities one will pass through multiple facilities available to them. You're not going to tell me that all these unfortunate sufferers of these medical conditions are aimlessly wandering around the streets all day. Yes the council could do it but they should not have to. It is not a necessary thing in 2019 as there is multiple other provision available. Our public finances are far better spent on other things rather than finding a solution to a problem that does not exist.

I would agree that maybe there should be an increase in signage to the nearest L.A.V.S .facility but the primary point is about provision which is amply met. People keep bringing up visitors to the city but I dont understand why there is such concern. A visitor has ample opportunities available. Why the constant focus and seeming demand on council provision? Its not necessary. Through my work, for example, I visit lots of different cities each month. I often have never been there before and dont know my way around. However, during the course of my visit, I go thorugh a train station which has toilets, visit a business office which has toilets, visit a courthouse which has toilets, stop for lunch at a cafe or restaurant which has toilets, get on the train home which nearly always has a toilet. Most people's own common sense will make them aware that any major department store or shopping mall will have public toilets inside. If people are visiting an art gallery, cinema, theatre or other leisure attraction they will have toilets. All hotels and bars have toilets. All sports centres, arenas and stadia has toilets. I am not seeing the problem here. If, as I have said before, you are in the very unfortunate position of having some medical condition that leaves you caught short then they should have no reason for feel uncomfortable about using a pub or bar facility. I doubt they would be many staff who would take issue over a genuine medical need. Nobody is going to tell me that an average visitor will not have amble opportunities to go to a toliet during their visit. Why should the council use their resources for building, cleaning and maintaining large numbers of on street facilities. The need is not there any more. They are already spending monies on ensuring that a number of private facilities are freely open and accessible to all public without any reason to feel uncomfortable about not purchasing anything.

I never said it had the same number of toliets. I was responding to the specific examples provided in some pathetic attempt of one upmanship. Read the key point in my post again. Legitimate visitors to the city have ample opportunity to go to the toilet multiple times whether they are working here, studying here, staying here, travelling through here, visting a leisure facility here, dining out here or shopping here. If none of that applies, what the hell are they doing?? . This hysterical nonsense about the lack of public funded public maintained provision needs to stop. Dwindling public resources can be spent on much better and more necessary things.

Jesus Christ that sentence explains so much. Get thee back to 1950. Those delicate pretty little women things must be protected at all times dare they see the flash of a man's belly or hairy legs. Men should be allowed to be men in a man's only environment free to have with their tackle hanging out whenever they feel like it. God forbid they have to share a space together - what has the world come to. Just out of curiosity oh prudish one, explain what on earth would you do with a transgender or non-binary person in your world. Where exactly are they supposed to go to get changed or use the toilet.

It's not. It's a bog in a room. You know just like you have in a house. Just like you have in smaller cafes or libraries or trains or airplanes or small offices or any disabled toilet up and down this land. The same applies for changing rooms. Lots of small fashion shops have changing cubicles for universal use. Lots of sports centres have universal changing areas with private cubicles. There isn't a problem to understand.

So you can't justify it then. Clearly, as you have resorted to childish comments. I think my point has been made. Since you no longer have any substantive response I won't waste any more time with you.

We have the European environmental groups figures haven't we. I thought climate change protesters liked evidence. Protests are supposed to have a point and are supposed to be targeted - not just scatterguned in a desperate hope of hitting the target. Is that sort of lazy behaviour that makes the public feel as if it's all a load of hot air and not credible. Even more so when the actual message is being drowned out silly stunts and irresponsible behaviour.

I'm more trying to make the point why there is so much public disorder being acted out by ER in our capital and other major UK cities when most of the biggest problems don't appear to be connected with this country. In this entire thread I have not seen one justified reason why members of the British public should be disrupted in this way. Their disgusting behaviour has gone well beyond getting the message out and certainly will beyond legitimate and targeted protest

Why do you object? I don't understand what the problem is? There are universal changing cubicles for all. Nobody is seeing anything. You do it behind a closed door and come back out into the main communal area. It's exactly the same with gender neutral toilets. I have been in a few of them as they are starting to be installed in several office buildings particularly in London. Generally they are a room filled with lots of individual cubicles (often now floor to ceiling height with a sealed door) and then have a communal area for handwashing or sometimes even individual hand washing stations in the cubicles. You go in, you do your thing and you leave. Nobody any the wiser whether your next door neighbour is a man woman or beast. We are all human beings sharing a space. Why do people find it so difficult to adjust. I thought really we've moved on and evolved from all this. Is fascinating how people heavily criticise the middle East countries for their ruthless segregation and degrading treatment particularly of women and homosexuals. The terrible segregation cafes and restaurants. The segregation and a off in public baths. Their Draconian dress codes when out in public and then you end up reading a thread like this!!

It's a bed in a room while someone receives medical care. One may argue very little dignity nor comfort for anyone in the middle of a hospital but unfortunately that's the nature of having treatment in a public place at public expense. This is supposed to be a universal free at source healthcare system for everyone. Yes there are certain areas where privacy should be maintained but we are talking about hospital wards here. It is not expected that people are generally walking around nude or doing intimate things in the middle of hospital ward for all to see. With the exception of those privileged people who have private health care and private rooms there is unfortunately very little that can be done. It's more than obvious that the NHS has a funding crisis and has extremely limited resources. To start incurring the the time and expense of segregating out groups of patients just because some people feel a little bit it degraded will cripple the system even more.

Go protest there then what you bothering us for. I never said it did excuse us. We are still working to reduce them. It's an ongoing process that takes some time. I have said before that there is no magic wand to be waved here. However I was certainly not going to skip responding to the statement like you said before which is completely incorrect. I take it you concede now that there are plenty of developing nations which emit much more CO2 than the UK does?

What are you talking about dawdle and drag. You have absolutely no idea of the preparation and the work that is required to implement these things. There are companies ( including mine) which have been making environmental adaptations for years. We already have significant laws in place regarding environmental waste and emission levels. We already have direct action and fines brought against companies which failed to comply with a law. For citizens we already have incentives for recycling including changes being made to the way we package, distribute and dispose of goods. We've been discouraging car use for years and changing road layouts to make improvements for public transport services. We have been trying for a decade now to build high speed train lines in line with those in Europe but the NIMBYs won't have that in case a bush has to be chopped down somewhere are in Lincolnshire. We have taken major steps to change our own habits in terms of recycling, reducing disposable waste and brought massive increases in the numbers of vegetarian and vegan diets. Public attitude is already adapting. The message has been received. That will explain why we are so far down the rankings of CO2. The top 15 worst contributors according to the global carbon statistics make up 72% of the entire global emissions. The UK is not part of that. Do you know who is.... countries like the US, Russia, Japan Germany, Canada, South Africa and of course China who alone produces the same percentage of the all global emissions than the non top 15 countries all put together. Don't preach to me that our politicians inactivity. How about you protesters wasting your time causing disruption over here when you should be getting off your backsides and go and protest where the real problems are. We're doing our share already.

Oh really so why does the statistics from the the European Commission Environmental Assessment Agency have have 64 countries ahead of United Kingdom with worst CO2 emissions per capita. How come that list is filled with places like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, Estonia, South Korea, Turkmenistan Taiwan, Libya, Poland, South Africa, China Slovenia, Bulgaria, Iraq, Chile, Ukraine, Venezuela, Latvia, Thailand... I'll tell you exactly what their baking habits have got to do with it smart arse. That bun in the oven will cause more environmental damage when it's born on this planet than 1000 jumbo jet flights. Its that wonderful thing that climate change protests completely ignore. Overpopulation.

Wow a 2 years old opinion piece from the guardian based upon an academic survey conducted in the USA. Concrete stuff that. Human dignity is created when a nurse/doctor draws a curtain around the bed to perform a routine procedure which may cause embarrassment. Human dignity is when a doctor or nurse removes someone from a ward to a treatment room or operating theatre to conduct a more invaisive procedure. One would assume that the rest of the time in a ward patients are dressed and covered up. Where exactly is the "indignity" here??

Great - no more fracking. Stop that tomorrow. Our ever consuming energy requirements are fulfilled with what system (that is all fully estalibshed, cost effective and ready to go immediately) Yes - lets go nuclear - im sure that will be accepted without question instantly. You know how popular nuclear is with the wider society. Aviation already has an environmental tax applied - why should there be double recovery. There is a dispute going on about the effecitvness of wind power - why should the ban be removed until we know it actually works ..... see not just that easy. Yes we can and are doing lots of exciting things. I am certainly not denying that. However, I keep saying - it doesnt happen overnight. That money, those jobs, those buildings take time. There has to be planning, organisation, recruitment, finances, legal affairs all put into place. What the hell are you talking about. I am certainly not a right wing dinosaur as you put it. Jesus, I am complete opposite in my political alliance. But, what I dont like is pointless gestures and deliberate disruption to ordinary people with little purpose. I have pointed out on several occasions now how this "protest" has gone from legitimate raising awarness to civil disobedience. That is unacceptable. The disruption is supposed to at the government and organisations. Blocking road, bringing public transport to a standsill, causing criminal damage is not legitimate protest no matter how many times you justify it. ER itself can stay around as long as it is behaving appropriately (which it isnt) and has a legitimate purpose (which on current form it hasnt). Protest groups need public support to keep going. Get them against you and you will be finished. That is reality. Something which ER certainly has lost a grip on recently.

I seem to recall that "something about carriers bags" as you dismiss it was protested as a crisis that was going to kill the world. You lot were there for years campaigning.........., banging on and on about how shameful, a disaster waiting to hapen, the horror that bag use numbers were rising, the shock stories of the the 1000+ years it takes for them to decompose and collosal damage to the environment us selfish bag users were doing... So, steps were taken. Organisations changed. Public attitude changes. Number of bags used dropped significantly and you casually brush it off as platitude. You, see this is the problem with you protestors. All mouth but no actually clue as to how the real world works. YOU CANNOT JUST CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT. Protestors might demand say, 100% electric vehicles by tomorrow but people with a brain know that is an impossibility. The techonology, costs and infrastructure is not there yet to make it viable. There is no magic wand that gets waved here that just makes it happen. Same goes for the demands screamed about power generation, transportation, agriculture, manufacturing. Change has to be planned. Systems have to be developed. Money has to be raised. Honestly, the way some of you lot talk its like a child. I want, I want, I want it now. Doesn't work like that. Mummy and Daddy have to deal with the reality. No wonder you struggle with wide public support. There is no substance. No acutal PRACTICAL and REALISTIC proposals. What the hell do you think science is. Theories and Conclusions are tested all the time. Research and opinion is all a big part of that. The BBC do present evidence. Both sides of it. Just because you dont accept the opposing side doesn't make their "evidence" any less worth of acceptance and/or challenge over your own. One could say that Fox news presents "evidence" but I think most of us are smart to know how such would be weighted. You see, that's the good thing about the BBC. They present both sides. They give you the range of opinion.

Nonsense. I have seen multiple debates broadcast between two people with polar opposite views. I have heard and seen phone ins with both experts and general members of the public where the host has deliberately put both parties on the same line and let them spend time countering each others points. It looks to me, that you are trying to push that every word spoken by a Climate Change hysteric is all true and cannot possibly be countered by another other point of view. NEWSFLASH, climate change protestors have been known to exagerate and provide mistruths too. I think the adult population are capable of forming their own view on all sides presented in front of them.

The government and several councils have declared "climate change emergency". There are proposals and targets set for net carbon emmisions in place. Shops and stores have set directives to reduce plastic production and waste Introduction of carrier bag charges Introduction of environmental charges to companies when disposing of certain categories of waste Mass recycling schemes with associated penalites Local council schemes to reduce car use in cities and encourage public transport Car free days Congestion charges BA has annonced plans to reduce to net emissions on domestic flights. I could go on.... Like I said. WE as a nation are doing something. We as a nation are well aware of the problem and are taking steps to tackle it. YES, it may well not be as quick as ER and the associated rabble would want - but they dont have to deal with the harsh reality of coming up with and implementing practical solutions. The reality is that change doesn't happen overnight so hard cheese. Now, what about the developing world, the african nations with their never ending breading, the United States where flying is still treated as hopping on a bus.... Blocking people getting to their work, damaging property, unnecessarilly utilsing emergency services resources, causing public disorder and generally acting like irritating self righteous prats aint exactly doing much to change those things is it.