Why is there so much animosity towards cyclists in Sheffield?

I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say. Cycling in the Netherlands is probably a more enjoyable activity than in the UK, due to the greater regard other road users have for cyclists.

I suspect that a greater factor in it being a more enjoyable activity is that Dutch roads are intentionally designed as much for cyclists as they are for drivers. This asserts the legitimacy of cyclists to be on the road.

]The fact that in a jurisdiction where training is compulsory it has clearly not reduced cycling participation is an argument against this.

The Dutch are fairly fundamentally different ;-)

For one thing their terrain has fostered cycling being an intrinsic, near-universal part of their culture. Also, it means that a very low-cost bicycle can be a completely adequate, useful means of getting around. Given that, and given the safety of it in such an environment, it's ludicrous that any 12 year old would not own a bike and cycle it on the road, and so it's rather unsurprising that a test isn't a barrier to cycling.

There is a Bikeability scheme that has replaced Cycling Proficiency (as it was in my day) and is available to schools - my daughters' Primary School does it at levels 1 (in Y 3/4) and 2 (Y 5/6). On their website it says they have funding from the Department of Transport but I don't know how many children that covers, nor if/how much our school pays.

There is a Bikeability scheme that has replaced Cycling Proficiency (as it was in my day) and is available to schools - my daughters' Primary School does it at levels 1 (in Y 3/4) and 2 (Y 5/6). On their website it says they have funding from the Department of Transport but I don't know how many children that covers, nor if/how much our school pays.

My daughter's school has done some for Y6 kids in the past. My daughter will be Y6 next year, so I hope they will still be doing it.

If not, I was thinking of getting her some formal training, as she's more likely to listen to a designated teacher than to me. Of course the best way to teach is by setting a good example as well as by specific instruction.

I suspect that a greater factor in it being a more enjoyable activity is that Dutch roads are intentionally designed as much for cyclists as they are for drivers. This asserts the legitimacy of cyclists to be on the road.

 

 

 

The Dutch are fairly fundamentally different ;-)

 

For one thing their terrain has fostered cycling being an intrinsic, near-universal part of their culture. Also, it means that a very low-cost bicycle can be a completely adequate, useful means of getting around. Given that, and given the safety of it in such an environment, it's ludicrous that any 12 year old would not own a bike and cycle it on the road, and so it's rather unsurprising that a test isn't a barrier to cycling.

A common misconception. What else is The Netherlands known for, in addition to being flat? WINDY!

The move to cycling is relatively recent, up until a shift towards cycling, The Netherlands was very car-centric

Many a time I have stopped at a traffic light as it is on amber, going to red, as I know I wouldn't get across the junction safely before the other traffic started to cross, specially if it's on an uphill section... only to have a car or two pass me. I never see any drivers hurling abuse at said red light runners.

Richard

Many a time I have stopped at a traffic light as it is on amber, going to red, as I know I wouldn't get across the junction safely before the other traffic started to cross, specially if it's on an uphill section... only to have a car or two pass me. I never see any drivers hurling abuse at said red light runners.

 

Richard

How could they? The car is gone.

All we need is a level playing field where anyone crossing a red light is punished, not how some cyclists see it as their right to jump red lights.

All we need is a level playing field where anyone crossing a red light is punished, not how some cyclists see it as their right to jump red lights.

I see what you did there - start the sentence with the impression that it's all about sorting out the problem for all road users, only to then turn it into a "cyclist issue".

How could they? The car is gone.

 

All we need is a level playing field where anyone crossing a red light is punished, not how some cyclists see it as their right to jump red lights.

Have you ever asked a cyclist who jumps a red light whether they see it as their right? More likely they know it is breaking the law but do it anyway. Just like people who speed or whatever else.

The amount of animosity that red light jumping by cyclists receives in no way reflects the danger it presents to society. This is not an excuse for doing it just an observation. Its about time people got a bit of perspective on the issue.

I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say. Cycling in the Netherlands is probably a more enjoyable activity than in the UK, due to the greater regard other road users have for cyclists. Part of this is quite likely because, according to Wikipedia, cycle training is compulsory at around age 12.

 

You have previously stated, or implied, that training would be a barrier to greater participation in cycling. The fact that in a jurisdiction where training is compulsory it has clearly not reduced cycling participation is an argument against this. Cycling may be different in Sheffield and the Netherlands but I refuse to accept that people are fundamentally different.

 

Proper training, delivered through school PE or PSE lessons could well, in the long run, reduce animosity towards cyclists. Particularly so if it was compulsory to have completed this before applying for a provisional driving licence.

I don't think anyone would object to cycle training for all 12 year olds, delivered free of charge as part of a government scheme.

That way it wouldn't act as a barrier to cycling, and, would likely encourage cycling.

It would also have the advantage of all future motorists having had some cycle training.

It's worth noting that on the wiki page you mention, straight after the section on cycle training, is this-

"Dutch motorists are also trained for interaction with cyclists as part of their driver training when going for their driving licence. For example, trainee motorists are trained to check and re-check their right-hand side for cyclists before making a turn to the right."

Adopting the same cycle training in this country as they have in the Netherlands would be totally stupid if you ask me ... they drive on the right hand side of the road for starters.

I realise of course that pedalissimos have their own special set of rules so far as roads are concerned, but surely even they would see problems with this idea?

(Unless of course the cychopaths decide to use any side of the road they fancy? )