Ukip. All discussion here please.

They choose to vote when it will make a difference? Masters of tactical voting despite having no experience and never having held any power?

For now the only power UKIP have is to annoy you and others like you.

 

Actually, it is kind of proof that they do less work, unless you can come up with evidence as to what they're doing instead. The accusation of them being an idle bunch has been made to them and they haven't as yet come up with a suitable retort.

No it isn't, an MEP could turn up to every vote despite not studying the policy they are voting for, and another MEP could study every policy and decide only to vote 50% of the time, the later would have done the most work.

 

 

 

I have no problem understanding democracy. People are voted in to represent us, and they are supposed to exercise their judgement based upon their in depth knowledge of the subject at hand to vote on our behalf.

They are doing what they were elected to do.

 

 

 

Whether we actually personally voted for them or not makes no difference they have been chosen by a majority to represent us.

And they are representing us.

 

Saying that I want them to do what I personally want shows a total lack of knowledge as to how the system works.

You are the one moaning about them not doing what you want them to do.

 

 

 

If you have no faith in your MP and it isn't just down to him/her belonging to a party you don't like why not write a letter of complaint to his/her local selection committee?

Because it would be pointless.

 

You say they haven't had the opportunity to be proven incompetent yet?

They haven't been in power, so haven't had the opportunity to mess up.

That's the point, they've only been going five minutes, don't have a single MP and yet have managed to shoot themselves in the feet with a regular frequency.

In your opinion which is irrelevant since you never intend to vote for them anyway.

 

Labour and Conservatives plus the Liberals have had many embarrassing moments. but at least they have been going for years and have hundreds of MPs between them.

Not sure why you think that is a good thing.

 

I don't have much time for politicians in general, have little respect for the main parties and thought nothing would be able to improve their image in my eyes.

And then along come UKIP who manage to make the others look vaguely competent and well run by comparison!

 

UKIP are just another bunch of freeloaders, using peoples fears and prejudice to gain votes so that they can get their snouts into the trough.

 

We've got plenty of those as it is.

 

That serve the needs of the people that elected them, when the other parties don't.

Edited June 30, 2014 by daneha

 

 

That serve the needs of the people that elected them, when the other parties don't.

 

Examples please.

For now the only power UKIP have is to annoy you and others like you.

 

 

No it isn't, an MEP could turn up to every vote despite not studying the policy they are voting for, and another MEP could study every policy and decide only to vote 50% of the time, the later would have done the most work.

 

 

 

They are doing what they were elected to do.

 

 

 

And they are representing us.

 

You are the one moaning about them not doing what you want them to do.

 

 

 

Because it would be pointless.

 

They haven't been in power, so haven't had the opportunity to mess up.

In your opinion which is irrelevant since you never intend to vote for them anyway.

 

Not sure why you think that is a good thing.

 

 

 

That serve the needs of the people that elected them, when the other parties don't.

 

They are not annoying me, their making me feel sorry for anyone daft enough to have voted for them.

 

What convinces you that that is what UKIP MEPs are doing?

 

What exactly did their voters elect them to do, have a good time in Brussels?

If it was something different, please explain exactly how they are achieving it.

 

As pointless as voting UKIP? Surely not.

 

It's very relevant, had they shown themselves to be a highly organized and focused party with a workable manifesto and plans to improve the economy rather than a one idea bunch of incompetents I may well have voted for them.

 

My vote isn't 'owned' by any particular party.

 

I don't 'think it is a good thing' it's simply a matter of scale. The other parties have many members and so the likelihood of having a few numpties is increased. UKIP have a small party and yet appear burdened down with numpties.

 

Please explain your needs, and how UKIP are addressing them so successfully.

They are not annoying me, their making me feel sorry for anyone daft enough to have voted for them.

You shouldn't concern yourself with such things because it appears to be annoying you.

 

What convinces you that that is what UKIP MEPs are doing?

 

What convinces you that that isn't what they are doing?

 

 

What exactly did their voters elect them to do, have a good time in Brussels?

If it was something different, please explain exactly how they are achieving it.

 

I doubt they expect them to do anything, being opposed to EU membership would imply they aren't that bothered whether they vote or not, my guess is most UKIP voter just what to give the other parties a bloody nose.

 

As pointless as voting UKIP? Surely not.

It as clearly been proven not to be pointless, look how its rattled your cage.

 

My vote isn't 'owned' by any particular party.

Nor mine.

 

I don't 'think it is a good thing' it's simply a matter of scale. The other parties have many members and so the likelihood of having a few numpties is increased. UKIP have a small party and yet appear burdened down with numpties.

Whether someone is a numpty is just a matter of personal opinion, so what you think isn't overly important in the grand scheme of things.

Please explain your needs, and how UKIP are addressing them so successfully.

 

I want an in / out EU referendum and the Conservatives have promised one because of the votes UKIP received.

I'm afraid if you believe any of that daneha your sadly misinformed.

 

As to it annoying me it's merely helping me pass the time in a semi amusing fashion.

 

Whether we stay or leave the EU will not be a matter decided by the people or the political parties.

 

Corporate business will decide, at the moment they want in.

I'm afraid if you believe any of that daneha your sadly misinformed.

Nope I am well informed thanks.

 

 

As to it annoying me it's merely helping me pass the time in a semi amusing fashion.

Nope UKIP winning as clearly annoyed you.

 

Whether we stay or leave the EU will not be a matter decided by the people or the political parties.

Only time will tell.

 

Corporate business will decide, at the moment they want in.

 

They won't get the opportunity to vote in/out and if the Conservatives win the next election and renege on their promise UKIP support will grow.

You really don't get it do you?

 

Big business rule the world, they always have, since the time of the Sumerians, Greeks and Romans.

 

Trade and acquisition of assets is what it's all about.

 

Nothing has changed in centuries and is unlikely to in the future.

 

Don't believe me?

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

 

If that doesn't work Google Smedley Butler. Click on his wikipedia page.

 

Scroll down until you reach the section headed Lectures. Read the piece in italics.

 

General Butler was the most highly decorated US Marine ever. He was also an extremely unusual man, in that not only was he physically courageous he was also morally courageous, not a common trait.

 

Think Iraq, and Bush and Dick Cheney, Vice President of the USA and CEO of Halliburton, a company that made billions from the invasion.

 

That is how the world works, democracy is a placebo for the masses.

 

As I say, if Big Business wants us to remain in the EU because it suits them, then we will, if ever they decide they would make more profit if we leave, then out we go.

 

Doesn't matter what the public think, they know best.

 

Ukip are just another inconsequential distraction to keep the great unwashed occupied.

You really don't get it do you?

 

Big business rule the world, they always have, since the time of the Sumerians, Greeks and Romans.

 

Trade and acquisition of assets is what it's all about.

 

Nothing has changed in centuries and is unlikely to in the future.

 

Don't believe me?

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

 

If that doesn't work Google Smedley Butler. Click on his wikipedia page.

 

Scroll down until you reach the section headed Lectures. Read the piece in italics.

 

General Butler was the most highly decorated US Marine ever. He was also an extremely unusual man, in that not only was he physically courageous he was also morally courageous, not a common trait.

 

Think Iraq, and Bush and Dick Cheney, Vice President of the USA and CEO of Halliburton, a company that made billions from the invasion.

 

That is how the world works, democracy is a placebo for the masses.

 

As I say, if Big Business wants us to remain in the EU because it suits them, then we will, if ever they decide they would make more profit if we leave, then out we go.

 

Doesn't matter what the public think, they know best.

 

Ukip are just another inconsequential distraction to keep the great unwashed occupied.

 

I have no more reason to believe Smedley Butler than I have you.

They haven't been in power, so haven't had the opportunity to mess up.

daneha, there have been UKIP MEPs in Brussels for the past 5 years. 13 of them, as many as Labour. What have they got to show for that in 2014? SFA.

 

Their work, voting and attendance record is where the "idle bunch" stuff comes from in the first place.

 

Ukip was ranked 76th out of 76 parties, attending on average 61.1 per cent of votes over the five-year Parliament. Among the six worst MEPs out of 764, three were from Ukip.

(source)

 

And if you think UKIP MEPs actually try to look after their electorate, think again:

<...>

 

Public figures analysed by the FT show that Mr Farage attended only one of 42 meetings of the fisheries committee on which he sat for three years. Paul Nuttall, his deputy, attended two out of 56 environment committee meetings.

 

Unlike select committees in Westminster, which have only an advisory role, those in the European Parliament can mould important legislation through “co-decisions” over EU policy alongside the Council of Ministers.

 

In the parliament itself, Ukip typically misses a third of the votes, double the average.

 

<...>

 

Other British MEPs are irritated they are not supported by their Ukip colleagues even when national interests are at stake. One example was the non-attendance by a Ukip MEP at the parliament’s economic affairs committee for a vote on the Financial Transactions Tax, a policy opposed by the party and the UK government.

 

Likewise, when the economic committee moved to propose a bonus cap on fund managers, Godfrey Bloom, a Ukip MEP at the time, and his two allies in the wider EFD grouping, all failed to attend. The majority of six on the cap proposal was one of the tightest committee votes that year.

 

And yet, people voted for more of the same en masse. You couldn't make it up.

Edited July 1, 2014 by L00b

daneha, there have been UKIP MEPs in Brussels for the past 5 years.

 

Their work, voting and attendance record is where the "idle bunch" stuff comes from in the first place.

 

(source)

 

And yet, people voted for more of the same en masse. You couldn't make it up.

 

And what would be different if they had attended the other 38.9% of votes, have they managed to stop any EU legislation at all by voting, if not then like I said they have no power.

 

 

This is what Nigel Farage had to say: "We can't change a thing in Europe

We can 'have fun' but it won't last"

 

 

 

And this is the LIb Dem voting record 12 Lib Dems in Brussels turned up for 86.9 per cent of votes, and what would be different right now if they had all stayed at home.

 

I would think that the people voting UKIP want out of the EU so I can't see them being overly bothered that UKIP don't turn up as much as the Lib Dems.

Edited July 1, 2014 by daneha