Do you believe in God?

You do not have to rely upon faith, you just choose to. For example you could do a thorough literature review to find out the circumference of the Earth, how it was measured and then draw your own conclusions.

 

I could measure it, but to check every fact ever discovered would take significantly longer than one’s life time, this is why we rely on faith and trust much of the information we are given. There are many things we cannot eat, we know they are poisonous because someone somewhere as probably eaten them and died, these facts are documented and we rely on faith when we choose not to eat them. You could check these facts out by eating the food, but it may be the last fact you ever check.

 

It's wrong to rely upon faith to acquire knowledge, what good is that knowledge if you have know way of discerning whether that knowledge is correct?

In that case there is little point reading a book, or attending school, college and university.

And now you're equivocating. Of course the bible exists, that's self evident. That says nothing about the truth claims of the bible for which there is no evidence and so there is no alternative than to have faith.

This isn't about the bible being true it’s about people having faith in it and believing its true.

 

 

The fact that I can go and research it myself and weigh up how likely any critique is likely to be true based on my critical thinking skills using reason and logic. This rules out the need for faith that you get from religious people.

 

Any research based on reading someone else’s finding is to rely on faith. The only way to know the distance from earth to Proxima Centauri is to do the calculations yourself, or look it up and rely on faith that the distance you read is correct.

 

 

 

No we're discussing faith in the contents of a book that exists, in this case the bible, and how that differs from the mindset of how people interpret scientific material.

 

Are we? I'm discussing my faith in science books, compared to someone’s faith in religious books.

Edited May 5, 2012 by MrSmith

And now you're equivocating. Of course the bible exists, that's self evident. That says nothing about the truth claims of the bible for which there is no evidence and so there is no alternative than to have faith.

 

This isn't about the bible being true it’s about people having faith in it and believing its true.

 

The fact that I can go and research it myself and weigh up how likely any critique is likely to be true based on my critical thinking skills using reason and logic. This rules out the need for faith that you get from religious people.

 

Any research based on reading someone else’s finding is to rely on faith. The only way to know the distance from earth to Proxima Centauri is to do the calculations yourself, or look it up and rely on faith that the distance you read is correct.

 

No we're discussing faith in the contents of a book that exists, in this case the bible, and how that differs from the mindset of how people interpret scientific material.

 

Are we? I'm discussing my faith in science books, compared to someone’s faith in religious books.

 

Please read properly and make sure you understand the point I'm making before you respond to it for simply repeating the same mantra when your argument has been thoroughly debunked makes you look like a troll or just stupid. I'm not sure which one yet.

If all you're doing is trying to have the last word because your argument can't go anywhere then please be assured that's not going to happen.

Now maybe you'd like to go back and address my actual points rather than the strawman version that you've responded to above.

I could measure it, but to check every fact ever discovered would take significantly longer than one’s life time, this is why we rely on faith and trust much of the information we are given.

 

What a daft comment, because I could also say if you were sat in a class room being taught every fact ever, it would also take longer than one's lifetime. So what point are you tryin to make?

 

There are many things we cannot eat, we know they are poisonous because someone somewhere as probably eaten them and died, these facts are documented and we rely on faith when we choose not to eat them. You could check these facts out by eating the food, but it may be the last fact you ever check.

 

We do not rely upon faith when deciding what foods are poisonous or not. We understand enough about the human anatomy and physiology to know what substances are poisonous and not.

 

 

In that case there is little point reading a book, or attending school, college and university.

 

For some maybe not, but I believe the real reason for an education beyond a basic one is to equip you with the necessary skills to learn things independently and then to critically analyse what you've learnt.

 

So I'd agree, there is little point in reading a book, attending school, college and university if all you're going to do is collect a series of facts and and accept them in an act of faith.

Please read properly and make sure you understand the point I'm making before you respond to it for simply repeating the same mantra when your argument has been thoroughly debunked makes you look like a troll or just stupid. I'm not sure which one yet.

If all you're doing is trying to have the last word because your argument can't go anywhere then please be assured that's not going to happen.

Now maybe you'd like to go back and address my actual points rather than the strawman version that you've responded to above.

 

Don't waste your time. He's a troll who's not prepared to debate in a honest manner. He's been shown the error of his ways numerous times but if he's prepared to remain willfully ignorant then he'll have to take the consequences of doing so. Some people you just can't educate and I should know.

Please read properly and make sure you understand the point I'm making before you respond to it for simply repeating the same mantra when your argument has been thoroughly debunked makes you look like a troll or just stupid. I'm not sure which one yet.

If all you're doing is trying to have the last word because your argument can't go anywhere then please be assured that's not going to happen.

Now maybe you'd like to go back and address my actual points rather than the strawman version that you've responded to above.

 

Sorry I answered the best way I can, what points don't you think I covered.

Please explain how using critical thinking skills would give you the distance from here to Proxima Centauri, The only why I can find out is to read someone else’s work and rely on faith that it is correct, I wouldn’t have a clue were to start if I had to calculate the distance myself. So if critical thinking would help me I would love to know how it works.

Sorry I answered the best way I can, what points don't you think I covered.

Please explain how using critical thinking skills would give you the distance from here to Proxima Centauri, The only why I can find out is to read someone else’s work and rely on faith that it is correct, I wouldn’t have a clue were to start if I had to calculate the distance myself. So if critical thinking would help me I would love to know how it works.

 

That's the point, this is a bad way to acquire information, there is a lot of rubbish published, printed and on the internet. So what you have to do is read around on the subject from a variety of respected sources and then use your own critical thinking skills to come to a judgement.

What a daft comment, because I could also say if you were sat in a class room being taught every fact ever, it would also take longer than one's lifetime. So what point are you tryin to make?

Sorry my bad to check every fact I have ever learnt would take a life time and skills I just don't have. So I read and trust the facts that others have discovered, I have faith that they are correct.

 

We do not rely upon faith when deciding what foods are poisonous or not. We understand enough about the human anatomy and physiology to know what substances are poisonous and not.

 

I don't, If I find a mushroom that looks edible, I look it up to check it won't kill me, I have faith in the book I read, I don’t have the means to analyse it and eating it would be stupid. Maybe something you would do but not me. I find it much easier to relying on faith that the book is correct when it says it’s safe or not.

 

For some maybe not, but I believe the real reason for an education beyond a basic one is to equip you with the necessary skills to learn things independently and then to critically analyse what you've learnt.

How does that work, please explained it.

 

So I'd agree, there is little point in reading a book, attending school, college and university if all you're going to do is collect a series of facts and and accept them in an act of faith.

 

What do you do befor accepting them has true facts?

If it critically analyse, how does that work?

Don't waste your time. He's a troll who's not prepared to debate in a honest manner. He's been shown the error of his ways numerous times but if he's prepared to remain willfully ignorant then he'll have to take the consequences of doing so. Some people you just can't educate and I should know.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'm beginning to see what you mean.

That's the point, this is a bad way to acquire information, there is a lot of rubbish published, printed and on the internet. So what you have to do is read around on the subject from a variety of respected sources and then use your own critical thinking skills to come to a judgement.

 

That’s what I do, but ultimately I still require faith in order to trust the information and the respected sources, because I haven't proven the fact for myself.

Millions of people would also argue that the bible and Quran are respected sources of information.