Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership

Anyone heard of this ?

It's a proposal for a free trade agreement between the EU and USA, Vince Cable is in charge of the UK end of it.

So that can only be a good thing yes ? free trade means fewer economic barriers to growth and development so we all become better off, well it would probably help if you were well off to start with but that's how these things work.

I have a couple of small concerns though, mainly to do with a small, unimportant section called "Investor-to-state Dispute Settlement" which basically allows a foreign business to sue a government for passing laws in it's own country that affect the foreign companies trade in that country.

So a rather extreme and probably silly example would be that this would allow foreign companies to sue the British government for passing laws that prevented them from putting drilling rigs in public parks for the purpose of fracking, there are probably better examples, tobacco companies suing because of laws preventing them from advertising their wares, American healthcare companies suing because of laws that prevent the privatisation of the NHS that sort of thing.

It's like an agreement that allows a neighbour to dig a cess pit in your garden and if you do anything about it they can sue you for interfering.

ISDS is a pretty fundamental shift in the relationship between businesses and governments.

Of course none of this could ever happen in practice could it, a business such as Chevron for example could never sue a country such as, say, Ecuador, for damages because Ecuador had the temerity to ask Chevron for $18Billion to clean up the toxic waste that Chevron left in Ecuador after drilling for oil on Ecuadorian soil. Philip Morris the tobacco company would not sue Uraguay or Australia over being forbidden to advertise on cigarette packets, and Vattenfall the Swedish energy company surely would not sue Germany over it's decision to phase out nuclear energy.

Except they would and they are.

Did I mention that these cases aren't held in courts of law where justice can be seen to be done but are held in secret and presided over by arbitrators so the first you get to hear of a decision is your tax bill going up to pay for it ?

My apologies, I should have mentioned that.

I'm surprised this isn't in the news to be honest, perhaps Mr Cable thinks it's something that we wouldn't be interested in.

---------- Post added 14-08-2014 at 15:07 ----------

And a related petition asking that nice Mr Cameron to state that the NHS would be exempt from TTIP negotiations, so US healthcare companies can't start charging UK patients for NHS treatment.

Sign if you want, don't sign if you don't want.

http://action.sumofus.org/a/nhs-ttip/

More information on TTIP from

What is TTIP? And six reasons why the answer should scare you - The Independent - Lee Williams - 7th Oct 2014

It's a complex situation and negotiations are far from finished. Overall it is a good move, it is about time we stopped all the silly barriers to trade between two important economies.

This particular clause won't affect the NHS, American companies wouldn't want to compete with a free health service. What it does do is create potential avenues for private insurers to offer alternatives to the NHS, not something I am against (We need capacity increase and if people are prepared to pay for that we shouldn't be against it).

The clause is there because it stops governments from particularly targeting companies and from creating new barriers to trade and in fact it is probably more beneficial to European companies than it is to American companies, the US does a good line in frustrating imports whilst slamming other countries for doing exactly the same.

If it's such a good thing and will bring all these benefits that you speak of then why are discussions regarding it being kept a secret.

If it's so beneficial then we could be told about it, specifically we could be told how it will benefit our lives, instead there is silence.

Rather strange for such an important agreement.

The only information we're getting seems to come from leaks, no one in authority is standing up and telling us what a good thing this is.

And the record of similar trade agreements also negotiated in secret seem to point to it not being such a good thing at all, see the "Chevron suing Ecuador etc..." points in the first post

Re the NHS point : I'm not against people being willing to put money into the NHS but they shouldn't expect to make a profit from it, if you break your leg the NHS don't ask you for your bank details after they fix it, I would like it to stay that way, if you want private healthcare there is always BUPA.

Have signed the 38 Degrees petition , ages ago . I hope that the silence of the mainstream media about TTIP is noted and results in the Streisand effect. Look what happened earlier this year when the care.data plan fell flat on its face when enough people took notice that their GP data was going to be harvested and opted out without even receiving information leaflets ! People are becoming more suspicious of omissions in media reporting .

The fact that TTIP is NOT being mentioned should ring some very loud alarm bells .

If it works anything like NAFTA jobs will go to where its the cheapest place to produce goods, which could mean that UK jobs could eventually go to Mexico.. :/

I've signed.

i rarely buy anything from the USA because i get hammered for customs duties and sometimes royal mail charges. i dont buy from europe because of high postage charges. but when i buy from hong kong and china, hey presto! free postage. this is stupid just stupid.

dont lose any sleep over TTIP, vince cable's party are not getting into power again any time soon.

There isn't anything secret about the negotiations on Europe's side. Not sure about the Americans. Have a look here for all the latest:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/

Swedish utility Vattenfall sues Germany over nuclear phaseout - Europe online magazine - 15 Oct 2014

Vattenfall is demanding 4.7 billion euros (6 billion dollars) in compensation from the German government for shutting down its nuclear plants, Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel told a parliamentary committee on Wednesday.

 

Vattenfall filed its claim with an international arbitration court in Washington, lawmakers of the Die Linke opposition party quoted Gabriel as saying

In 2012 Vattenfall filed suit at the Washington-based International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID), demanding $6 billion in compensation.

I cannot see any benefits from the TTIP. My ttip is to be against it.