Defining Classes.

As a follow on from the Inverted snob thread (and Im aware that a similar thread to this has been created before a couple of years ago but I want to see a new light on the subject from newer members) Id like to know exactly WHAT makes a working class, a middle class, an upper middle class person.

Of course this applies to the so-called "Underclass" that we seem to hear about occasionally.

Im in the odd position of living in an upper class (ish) area with what Id call a middle class (ish) family belonging to my OH, I have lots of middle class neighbours and friends and relatives on my OHs side of the family.

Yet Im from Parson Cross. Im a Cross lad, my family at the turn of the 20th century and before that were pretty high class, but thats another story, so I suppose upper classness is in my genes, if it CAN be transferred through genes that is.

Actually, as a further question, can class be bred into people? Do we have to learn it? As I said, I was born and dragged up on Parson Cross, but I never liked football or the other things that other kids of my age liked, I was reading books by Edgar Allen Poe from the age of 6 while my peers were out scrumping apples and eating frogs.

DISCUSS!

Or Ill come and hunt yer foxes!

I don't really subscribe to the idea of classing people. After all, anyone who works - must by definition be working class - so its a nonsense!

Some people though, insist that theyre from a particular class, in my limited experience people who have "Risen" for want of a better word from working class to what could be called middle class love to insist theyre middle class.

You never really see an ex middle class person who used to be a manager, demoted to car park attendant proudly proclaiming theyre working class though.

I think the notion of class is ridiculous. Why do we need to label ourselves and others? Yes, it serves a sociological purpose, but it's just a state of mind IMO. I was born on a council estate, but my dad got lucky with a job in computers very early on in their development, so soon had a well paid job and we moved to nicer and nicer places with 'middle class' neighbours. I went to University, and now run my own business in a 'posh' part of Sheffield - is my class a function of my birth or the life I've worked for? I hate the implication that the tier of society you belong to determines your value to or worth within it. I am who I am, if you want to define me, fine, but I don't apply any 'class' label to myself.

I think the notion of class is ridiculous. Why do we need to label ourselves and others? Yes, it serves a sociological purpose, but it's just a state of mind IMO. I was born on a council estate, but my dad got lucky with a job in computers very early on in their development, so soon had a well paid job and we moved to nicer and nicer places with 'middle class' neighbours. I went to University, and now run my own business in a 'posh' part of Sheffield - is my class a function of my birth or the life I've worked for? I hate the implication that the tier of society you belong to determines your value to or worth within it. I am who I am, if you want to define me, fine, but I don't apply any 'class' label to myself.

What he said!

I believe class is defined by how "up your own a**e you are"

What he said!

He's a she

It depends on lots of things - upbringing, aspirations, tastes, attitudes etc. Money has very little to do with it. Some of the aristocracy are dirt poor, but you wouldn't say Kerry Katona was posh, would you? Nor, indeed, Posh herself.

It's the middle classes that are the problem. The Upper Middle has nothing to do with money, more with tastes/education - and I have to admit I'm in that group - educated, house full of books and a right mess, lefty views (this is common), clinging to my working class roots, etc. Most teachers are Upper Middle. Anyone who hasn't got a telly that hasn't just had it nicked is Upper Middle. 'Irony' is Upper Middle. Folk like Posh are Middle-Middle - not educated but stinking rich, quite brash taste etc. Lower Middle are the strivers.

The Middle classes are hilarious though, more concerned with class than just about anyone else. Either trying to appear like they have some or reacting against it violently by farting in lifts in posh shops, meh. Most people are middle class. If you've ever wondered about your class then you're probably middle class. If you don't know the position on napkin rings then you're lower middle

The Upper classes just don't care. If you see someone stood there scratching their bum, having a smoke and reading the Sun it's as likely to be Boris Johnson and one of his Bullingdon club mates as it is someone on the dole.

There's actually a demographic coding system which will identify upper/lower bands of working, middle and upper classes bases largely on profession/occupation.

However, I think the upper class definition is limited very much to landed gentry - titled people and those on particular civil lists. When you say you live in an upper class (ish) area, I think upper-middle class is probably more to the point - that would describe the likes of nicer parts of Dore, Wirlow and Fulwood. For upper class, look at homes with turrets and their own trout stream.

The lower working classes are obvious, from toilet cleaners and hod carriers to shop workers and mechanics, and we start looking at upper working class with the more experienced and better paid/experienced foremen, junior managers, nurses and junior teachers and policemen.

The latter (teachers, policemen and the like) can climb the rungs to lower middle class when they achieve promotion, and accordingly adjust their lifestyles, so senior teachers/department heads, police inspectors (perhaps senior sergeants). The same bracket would apply to junior doctors, senior nurses, junior military officers, lawyers, industrial middle-to higher level management, university lecturers with doctorates, and many similar groups.

Upper middle class would be a label suitable for company owners/directors, dental/medical consultants, senior partner lawyers/architects/similar professionals, senior policemen/military (perhaps chief superintendent/colonel level).

Of course, all related to family back ground as well as profession – the examples I use did not consider the individual’s circumstances of birth or inheritance, which also have to be considered.

As for underclasses - they are the growing mass of benefit-dependant leeches with no skills, no intention to acquire them, and family backgrounds of the same ilk. Thick, useless, virtually unemployable and mostly dishonest vermin that populate the majority of the free houses on our council estates - a far cry from the proud working people for whom such estates were originally built.

Of course it’s all relative, and there are many factors. Financial levels?

Income has a contribution, but is only one factor – a wealthy man can be very working class, and a poor man can be very upper middle class. But, very broad brush stab at it (and they deliberately overlap):

Underclass – bugger all, except for what is stolen/sucked from the welfare state.

Lower working – up to £25k

Upper working – £20-45k

Lower Middle – £35-70K

Upper Middle – £60k plus

Upper Class – not cash dependent at all, as half of the big estates are in the red.

And a dim-witted footballer or lottery winner remains working class irrespective of how much they’re worth.

He's a she

I'm so sorry my dear girl!