jeremyjh1 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 It has become quite clear that freedom is that which is given to us by those in charge (whether elected by others or having just assumed or been given such power). It is given and it comes with conditions. So, is it really 'freedom'? And, if it is not, can it be said that we exist in a social dictatorship? I ask because I was (foolishly) under the impression that wars had been fought and people had died to protect our freedoms and that freedom allowed each and every one of us to hold views and opinions, however reprehensible or abhorrent to others (or those in power). I appreciate such restrictive measures as incitement to violence, racial hatred, sexual harrassment etc., but, like all 'rules' or 'laws' it is not what they are intended to protect or control, it is almost always down to how the administrators or implementors of those rules perceive them to be. I do not want this debate to veer off down different avenues, if possible (though I understand and accept that, once out there in the ether, it can take on a life of it's own and it is driven by the words and motives of others). On a simplistic or lesser level (where national security or personal liberty is not under threat) how 'free' are we? And, more importantly, how free can we be when our freedom is in the hands of others (and their own motives and agendas)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghozer Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Why does it not exist?? can you say anything you want, about anyone, or anything, without any repercussion? can you do anything you want, to anyone, or anything, (within the law) without any repercussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Why does it not exist?? can you say anything you want, about anyone, or anything, without any repercussion? Nope. can you do anything you want, to anyone, or anything, (within the law) without any repercussion? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyjh1 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Why does it not exist?? can you say anything you want, about anyone, or anything, without any repercussion? can you do anything you want, to anyone, or anything, (within the law) without any repercussion? There is perception and then there is reality. It's a nice thought, but it is a thought nonetheless. Your freedom, my freedom, anyone's freedom is given to you by whoever holds power (in the country, in the playground, in this forum). There is the law of the land, the law of the forum, the law of the playground and so on. Then there is the administration of that law (and in corrupt regimes, that can differ from minute to minute). Then there is the individual dictator who ultimately weilds their power. If they say black is white or up is down, then there is little you can do but agree or they can take away your freedom and contrive any justifiable reason. You only have the freedom given to you - and that which is given can be taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish1936 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Freedom is available to ONE intelligent being alone in a universe. If there are two beings, then one's actions may impinge on the other, thus limiting that one's "freedom" If I have a ball, and am all alone in a universe I "own", I am free to throw the ball anywhere, with any force. If you are there too, you may not allow me to throw it hard at your head; so you limit my freedom. Or, I insist on throwing at your head, which limits your freedom not to be injured. L.Sprague de Camp tells a story of a Roman emperor granting religious freedom. He is confronted by an angry bishop, asking why the procession from his church was stopped. "Where were you going in procession?" asks the emperor. "Down to the church of the heretics, to burn it over their heads!" replies the bishop, "and we don't have religious freedom if we can't do that!" (Readers with the book to hand may correct me on details) Remember that the Pilgrim Fathers fled religious persecution, only to practice it themselves. True freedom is the right to deny freedom to others, usually from the best of motives. There are no rights, only privileges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Then there is the administration of that law (and in corrupt regimes, that can differ from minute to minute). Under our present régime the law itself seems to change on a monthly basis so how anyone could know what their actual freedoms are is pretty problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyjh1 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Under our present régime the law itself seems to change on a monthly basis so how anyone could know what their actual freedoms are is pretty problematic. They are what we are informed they are at the present moment and when they change we will be informed then. In truth, there is the 'freedom' you think you have and the freedom someone in authority (whether they are there rightly or by force) decides you can enjoy, which often depends on the mood, motive or feeling of self-importance of the individual. I once had the misfortune to have to deal with an official at an embassy in London. I was waiting for some papers to be stamped and sealed. Having waited for over an hour while the official did 'official' stuff (basically, not very much so it appeared to me). I asked when it was likely my documents would be available. At this point the official reached forward to an in tray, sifted through a pile of folders, found my file (two or three from the top of the pile), took it out and replaced it at the bottom of the pile, turned to look at me and with a smug smile said; 'Tomorrow or the day after'. Small time officials drunk on their own self-importance. Don't you just love them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olec Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Education and politics discourages freedom so much than in a life time you are unlikely to have it, but only you can find freedom for yourself, it's hard, but not impossible. People sit in the lotus position on a mountain side for 20 years trying to free themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinac Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Freedom and responsibility go together in a civilised society. I don't want to be free to go into my neighbours house and take anythng I want, because I don't want others to be able to do the same to me. I do want the freedom to think and say what I want and I am happy for others to have this same freedom ... but there are boundaries here too. I don't want the freedom to incite hatred and violence upon others because I don't want others doing that to me! So I guess the question we need to ask is ... What freedoms do we want (that we currently don't have), which we'd be happy to grant to EVERYONE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I've ressurected this because we were having a discussion about philosophy on another thread and I wanted to explore this further without taking that thread off topic. What is freedom exactly? Is it to be without constraint and able to do whatever you choose? Is it to be able to live as you wish but within the bounderies of the laws of the land we live in? Are there different freedoms? Can the mind be totally free even if the body is not? Can the mind be without suffering even if the body is subject to it? Can rules and laws help make us free or are they by default inhibitors of freedom? Can we train ourselves to be 'free' or is it a matter of circumstance? Like I said, a continuation of another thread and very philosophical in nature - all thoughts welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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