Is it just me that's bored of electro?

[dj4321gsr]

Excellent post!

 

At the risk of getting slaughtered by my learned friend 4321 I think peoples issues with the likes of fiddy is that it seems all about him and what he does and it kind of ignores the beats and the DJ, without his DJ fiddy is nothing. Just a guy speaking in rhythm. The more popular hiphop seems so far removed from what people think hiphop should be that they kind of resent it. I know I do.

 

As for your feelings about apache they are entirely justified, I personally regard Nile Edwards as hip hop

 

Dont worry I wont slaughter you. lol

Very true,

Ladies love cool jay, Slick Rick, Nice n Smooth & Big Daddy Kane, each pioneers and legends in the hip hop game, have built there name on bigging there status on the mike. Infact I would consider all of them much more egotistical than Fiddy. Definately more handsome. Big Daddy Kane featured in Playgirl, with his big self all exposed nude. Hence he lived by his gracious name sake.!!!

True hip hop has come away from what we music purveyors regard it as.

But you could say that about house & R&B.

Nile Edwards most definately a musical genius and most definately hip hop, although recognised in the disco scene. Which is why hip hop is a huge spectrum of musical idealogy's.

[DelMonte]

Firstly hip hop is about the elements and whole cuture that surrounds the music. You forgot a major element there and that is it is music from the ghetto or streets. Also it is a fundamental format of entertainment from the ghetto.

Fiddy raps about his life on the streets. Just like Furious 5 did in the 70's.

By saying 50 is not hip hop you also diss the producers, So you are saying Dre, Timbaland, Scott Storch, are not hip hop! hey they created the beats for his hits and you would probably not say that if you heard how certain djs play fiddys music in NY clubs. Its funny because I have spoken to a lot of cats in the industry on this subject and they dont ever put that perception on artists based on commercial releases or success.

 

Nelly, PM Dawn, Black Eyed Peas (although they started off raw) Yes, never been hip hop.

 

I am not sticking up for 50 but he is an entertainer and arguably the most successful. His style is raw although he makes commercial records. Just like Twista, Nas, Biggie, 2pac, Snoop, Missy Elliot or Eve. Just because they are successful does not mean they do not represent hip hop.

Whoo Kid is one of the biggest djs in the mix tape industry so I can not understand why he would be amongst someone who you percieve as not hip hop & it does not get more hip hop than him I'm afraid. I will lend you a mix tape if you want.

I can see your perception and like myself I prefer the more under ground hip hop as I started buying Electro hip hop from 1983 and saw it progress. I hate the negative influences that surround hip hop today but unfortunately neither you or I are going to stop it.

NWA, Krs 1, Slick Rick and even Public Enemy went through the phase of being a negative role models so no one is perfect and these guys were arguably the greatest rappers ever.

The reason why the true pioneers were not given the credit where it was deserved was because the media and mainstream corporate industry did not want hip hop to succeed. Then a long came NWA and 2 live Crew to give us gangsta rap and cause controversy and sell records to white middle class america.

 

Back in the day I used to think Kurtis Blow, Flash n the furious 5 and even some Run Dmc records was crap because they was successful compared to other rappers. I would never ever say they werent hip hop as they were all about the streets, just like fiddy. (like it or not)

 

Its funny because people also diss Kanye West now because he is successful and his lyrics are conscience and he is a positive role model.

 

So do you think Dj Westwood, 2pac, Biggie, P-Diddy, LL Cool J is not hip hop. Even though they have helped build it to what it is today.

If I consider the Shadows (Apache) as hip hop because it was constantly popular playlisted in the (Bronx) ghetto, then so definately is fiddy.

What I hate is the snobery that gets invoked in hip hop. Yes I love break dancing, graffiti, rap, scratching; but there is good and bad in all as a matter of opinion. To say not hip hop sounds like hating to me.

Think about it!!!

 

I don't think your getting me at all G, its all about personal opinion, hence me starting the para with: 'for me....'

I can't be doing with your condescending attitude, you prattle on like I've never been to a hip hop night before...you've never even met me! And yes I know your reputation and by all your accounts your a great dj with a massive muscial knowledge so respect BUT that doesn't give mean your voicing anything other than your opinion.

[dj4321gsr]

I don't think your getting me at all G, its all about personal opinion, hence me starting the para with: 'for me....'

I can't be doing with your condescending attitude, you prattle on like I've never been to a hip hop night before...you've never even met me! And yes I know your reputation and by all your accounts your a great dj with a massive muscial knowledge so respect BUT that doesn't give mean your voicing anything other than your opinion.

 

Hey come D,

Theres nothing but love here:love:. I was explaining a point that some people do not understand.

The point is; its ok, trying to keep things real and underground but what about the brilliant artists that have now been extinct because of this;

eg)

Tim Dog / Ultra Magnetic

Nice n Smooth

Not here to judge you at all as I have not done this. Check my statements.

I just think that your statement "Fiddy for me is not hip hop is wrong" because, in the industry he is.

A lot of people in the hip hop industry regard Black Twang and London Posse as just poor UK rappers and do not regard them as hip hop. I must admit, after asking relations over there about Roots Manuva, they did not know who they were and when I played them the stuff they said; production great, lyrically poor.

So us UK people are the last to talk about whats hip hop and whats not. Even the French are leading us in the hip hop stakes and you know thats true.

I did mention for the record that I do agree with you to a certain degree.

There was no attitude implied here but matter of opinion which however no matter how you look at it Fiddy is a hip hop artist or rap artist. (pop crap what ever)

Not every body digs Talib Kweli and the cooler stuff because they find it void of entertainment. Something that the likes of fiddy and em have found to conquer there market.

There is no hating here but I do think you have been too quick to jump on me when initially I have understood you thoroughly.

[johnbradley]

50 cent is an unfortunate and overhyped byproduct of a flabby industry, and needs to stop making crap records.

 

All that pop rap nonsense is damaging to how people percieve hiphop.

 

I agree with Del Monte - for me, 50 cent is not making music good enough to be classed as 'hiphop music', even though the industry defines it as such. You can say the same for most of the R'n'B tossers too.

 

And as for saying that the french are way ahead? I chuckled when i read that:) Not to undermine that country's talent, more because you can't have heard much uk hiphop recently. A dusty copy of 'gangster chronicle' and an old 'derek b' t shirt doesnt really make you an expert...

 

The uk is producing awesome mcs and producers... making tunes that urinate all over that weak toss timbaland and co are putting out. Fact.

[Rushup]

ok dude.....please could you classify this for me (musical genre)....

 

 

and this....

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wdk5kf91LgI

 

and this...

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCWUiBn2yXc

 

because i think we're just squabbling over names here.....

 

 

Every one of those tracks makes me want to set myself on fire and crawl as slowly as possible to a petrol station.

 

I burn horribly and die en route, or go up in an impressive explosion the likes of which haven't been seen since the blitz. Either way I win.

[dj4321gsr]

50 cent is an unfortunate and overhyped byproduct of a flabby industry, and needs to stop making crap records.

 

All that pop rap nonsense is damaging to how people percieve hiphop.

 

I agree with Del Monte - for me, 50 cent is not making music good enough to be classed as 'hiphop music', even though the industry defines it as such. You can say the same for most of the R'n'B tossers too.

 

And as for saying that the french are way ahead? I chuckled when i read that:) Not to undermine that country's talent, more because you can't have heard much uk hiphop recently. A dusty copy of 'gangster chronicle' and an old 'derek b' t shirt doesnt really make you an expert...

 

The uk is producing awesome mcs and producers... making tunes that urinate all over that weak toss timbaland and co are putting out. Fact.

 

Hi John

I am not going to change this thread or hi jack into a hip hop thread just to defend my statements but what you and delmonte are stating is both right and wrong.

Just because a tune is mainstream does not mean it is not hip hop.

 

eg)

Is Jazzy Jeff Hip Hop. The answer is yes even though when he first came on the scene he produced the crappy pop track "Girls aint nothing but trouble" with probably the weakest rapper back then "Fresh Prince" (Will Smith)

Now if you came to me and compared that to 50 cent "In da Club", I know which sound has the most underground street sound.

Do you get my drift yet!!!!!!!

 

Hip Hop has many genres now and you need to face up to the realities of it. Nobody is denying that it is not pop. When 50 throws down in a concert, it is always with a hot turntablist, be it Green Lantern or Whoo Kid. And anyone saying that they are not hip hop needs to seek advice quick and stop getting stuck up there own arses.

 

Again you probably class Beyonce as R&B. You should know that there is pop R&B and underground R&B. The difference between Musiq Soulchild and Akon is so great in terms of musical quality. Im sure you understand that too, as you sound musically intelligent.

 

The French are way above us on the simple grounds that they have embraced hip hop culture far stronger than the UK. They have bigger and more worldwide artists than us for starters.

We still only have a handful that I would consider internationally massive.

 

Estelle (although getting pushed similar to Lauryn Hill, signed to Warner Atlantic)

Dizzy Rascal (Even though I still dont understand a word he says)

 

The other legion of cool artists are good, no denying that, but in the world of hip hop, like it or not; Russell Simmons (Def Jam)probably does not even know they exist.

But what hurts UK hip hop, is the vast amount of crap that doesnt even sell. Check channel U for details and info, as its full of it.

At least the US artists know how to sell there crap poppy hip hop and like it or not; they are good at marketing it.

Your right, we have awesome producers and turntablist but still, we dont know how to market them and unfortunately thats sad.

 

To say Timbaaland is weak is like stating Quincy Jones or Rod Temperton are weak because they collaborated with Michael Jackson and got bigger. Thats just hating.

Timbaaland has been strong for over 15 years doing underground hip hop before he was big. You probably only heard the pop productions with JT. lol

 

The irony of this debate is simply this. You guys have a deep rooted depiction of hip hop that it has to be real, or inventive, or on the edge of advancement.

Wrong!!!!!

Hip Hop has always been about entertainment be it commercially or underground.

 

Im sure Sugarhill Gang when they came out with Rappers Delight were thinking "lets make some money doing underground hip hop"

I think not.!!!!!

Grandmaster Caz from Cold Crush Brothers even rubbished there tripe, even though as a hip hop record, it filled dance floors and made money and 20 years later its looked upon as being cool.

 

Do you get what I'm sayin now...

[discodown]

Every one of those tracks makes me want to set myself on fire and crawl as slowly as possible to a petrol station.

 

I burn horribly and die en route, or go up in an impressive explosion the likes of which haven't been seen since the blitz. Either way I win.

I agree that the freaks track is cheesier than dairylea spread on brie and sprinkled with parmesan. the freemasons track is probably their weakest release so far and the FLG thing is just plain annoying

[Solomon1]

I agree that the freaks track is cheesier than dairylea spread on brie and sprinkled with parmesan. the freemasons track is probably their weakest release so far and the FLG thing is just plain annoying

 

yes (cough). but are they what you'd classify as electro?

 

and maaaan.....do they all float my boat or what. the freaks track especially...

 

da da da dada da da da DAAAAAA!!

 

[Rossian]

yes (cough). but are they what you'd classify as electro?

 

 

No no no no no. Please stop calling this rubbish "electro". It is just pop music. The Freaks track used to be a reasonble electro house tune (originally released in 2003 and a big tune at UG), but it has been bastardised into a piece of commercial pop nonsense.

 

If you want to know what electro really is try:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFbSd-8sPl0 (classic electro)

 

(modern electro)

[johnbradley]

To say Timbaaland is weak is like stating Quincy Jones or Rod Temperton are weak because they collaborated with Michael Jackson and got bigger. Thats just hating.

Timbaaland has been strong for over 15 years doing underground hip hop before he was big. You probably only heard the pop productions with JT. lol

 

The irony of this debate is simply this. You guys have a deep rooted depiction of hip hop that it has to be real, or inventive, or on the edge of advancement.

Wrong!!!!!

Hip Hop has always been about entertainment be it commercially or underground.

 

timbaland is a producer that i never really got into. Aside from a handful of tunes, his stuff just isnt that interesting. And he's an arrogant prick.

 

When i said 'pop-rap nonsense' i meant the dross that 50/g-unit/others put out, under the guise of 'real', where it is creatively weak.

 

Realness/creative quality doesn't always have to be outside of the mainstream. There are quite a few succesful artists i like, and along the way, some classic albums have been made, which transcend the 'sell-out' angle.

 

But in the case of this 'commercial gangsta rap' stuff i just think it's a big load of arse. Lyrics, content and intent are all poor. And in addition, the production is pretty laughable at times.

 

Now you might be a huge fan of this particular development in hiphop music, but for me, i'd rather be interested in decent records.

 

And as for the US not recognising UK talent? Who cares? That is called 'seeking validation', and you should really know that part of being involved in hiphop music is standing up and just doing it, not waiting for some other dude's approval.

 

So enough of the lecturing, already, we will just have to disagree. You enjoy a particular type of hiphop music that i feel is of fairly low quality. Each to their own;)