Jessica23 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, I love your definitions. By picking and choosing which criteria and including my family background, I can be a member of everything from the underclass to the upper middle! Simultaneously! Go me - we truly are a classless society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxforcefive Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, I love your definitions. By picking and choosing which criteria and including my family background, I can be a member of everything from the underclass to the upper middle! Simultaneously! Go me - we truly are a classless society. I'll second that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathom Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, you betray your own place there by focusing on money and job! It's about so much more than those things. There's also tastes, whether you own a house (anyone who does is Middle in some way - but not everyone who rents is working class!), level of education, attitude towards it, hobbies etc. The easiest way to find out what class someone is would be to watch what they do at meal times. My parents used to get out the napkin rings, placemats, candelabra, and decant pickles into little dishes - that's so lower middle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSparkle Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 It depends on lots of things - upbringing, aspirations, tastes, attitudes etc. Money has very little to do with it. Some of the aristocracy are dirt poor, but you wouldn't say Kerry Katona was posh, would you? Nor, indeed, Posh herself. It's the middle classes that are the problem. The Upper Middle has nothing to do with money, more with tastes/education - and I have to admit I'm in that group - educated, house full of books and a right mess, lefty views (this is common), clinging to my working class roots, etc. Most teachers are Upper Middle. Anyone who hasn't got a telly that hasn't just had it nicked is Upper Middle. 'Irony' is Upper Middle. Folk like Posh are Middle-Middle - not educated but stinking rich, quite brash taste etc. Lower Middle are the strivers. The Middle classes are hilarious though, more concerned with class than just about anyone else. Either trying to appear like they have some or reacting against it violently by farting in lifts in posh shops, meh. Most people are middle class. If you've ever wondered about your class then you're probably middle class. If you don't know the position on napkin rings then you're lower middle The Upper classes just don't care. If you see someone stood there scratching their bum, having a smoke and reading the Sun it's as likely to be Boris Johnson and one of his Bullingdon club mates as it is someone on the dole. That is SO true :hihi: The traditional 'working class' and aristocracy are actually very similar in their attitudes, and don't give a stuff what others think of them - because they don't need to. It's the 'middle classes' for wont of a better term that have to mind their 'p's and q's' because they are judging and being judged the whole time. Personally, I have both peasant stock genes and 'upper class' genes, so I have a really bad attitude all round!! StarSparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurper Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, I love your definitions. By picking and choosing which criteria and including my family background, I can be a member of everything from the underclass to the upper middle! Simultaneously! Go me - we truly are a classless society. That's the whole point - none of it is objective, we are what we are, and don't necessarily 'fit' any criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurper Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, you betray your own place there by focusing on money and job! It's about so much more than those things. There's also tastes, whether you own a house (anyone who does is Middle in some way - but not everyone who rents is working class!), level of education, attitude towards it, hobbies etc. The easiest way to find out what class someone is would be to watch what they do at meal times. My parents used to get out the napkin rings, placemats, candelabra, and decant pickles into little dishes - that's so lower middle! The criteria I quoted were from the article I read - not my own view. I agree that the real indicators are taste, education, manners, social activities and the like - and tell-tales like the way working classes insist on calling their lunch 'dinner'. As for house ownership, I don't see this as indicative of middle class status. There are many, many privately-owned terrace houses and semis on rough estates that most certainly belong to working class families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSparkle Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Slurper, you betray your own place there by focusing on money and job! It's about so much more than those things. There's also tastes, whether you own a house (anyone who does is Middle in some way - but not everyone who rents is working class!), level of education, attitude towards it, hobbies etc. The easiest way to find out what class someone is would be to watch what they do at meal times. My parents used to get out the napkin rings, placemats, candelabra, and decant pickles into little dishes - that's so lower middle! Exactly so, Mathom. As you say, it's about so much more than money. Money comes into it, but it's so very much more about things like upbringing, the manners that were inculcated into you as a child, your values and tastes, culture, vocabulary, accent, education, your career, where you live, your aspirations, what is important to you in life, etc, etc. To concentrate on money is middle-class in itself! Have you never heard of the genteel poor? The people who come from good families but who are as poor as church mice. But you would never in a million years mistake them for being working class, however shabby their clothes. Chances are they own a magnificent house probably full of beautiful antiques in a lovely area - but they have literally no money in their purse. These people were all over the place when I was a child growing up in Edinburgh. To claim class is all about money is to say that you know the cost of everything, but the true value of nothing. StarSparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 That's the whole point - none of it is objective, we are what we are, and don't necessarily 'fit' any criteria. But if that's the point, why bother listing all those criteria in the first place? If I can't be categorised - and I'm sure I'm not unusual in that - then it's a totally pointless exercise, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olec Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 The problem is even if we are a 'classless society' there are still outspoken people who alienate themselves from people who act differently to them and stick to 'their own kind' thereofore creating class, professionals tend to hang around with professionals and tradesmen tend to hang around with tradesman because it's what they know, snobbery I spose. I think most nice, normal people, whether wealthy or not would like to avoid class and be a bloody person before conforming to traditional social norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurper Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 But if that's the point, why bother listing all those criteria in the first place? If I can't be categorised - and I'm sure I'm not unusual in that - then it's a totally pointless exercise, isn't it? I listed those criteria to promote discussion - if it's a pointless exercise, why contribute to the thread at all? Those factors remain relevant in many cases nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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