Defining Classes.

[StarSparkle]

You can easily be fooled with regard to clothes! The people spending a bomb on designer labels think it gives them class but it doesn't. In fact a member of the Upper Middles might make a big point of shopping at charity shops - it's no accident that 'shabby chic' became so fashionable! And proper upper class women (like Her Madge, for example) are often seen trolling about in an ancient headscarf and waxed jacket - the scarf might well be Hermes, but it's still an old one. A new one would look too 'arriviste'

 

So, so true, Mathom.

 

I remember my sister once commenting that the more designer clothes someone wore, the chances are the more common they were. No-one classy needs to try that hard.

 

StarSparkle

[Greybeard]

Good troll Mr. Slurp !....or should that be Mr. Slope

 

 

What you raise is extremely relevant – people ‘hang out’ with peers of like mind.

 

I find it very difficult to hold a conversation with uneducated people – they talk drivel, have limited understanding of the world around them, and tend to be interested in crass subjects like football, gutter TV and tabloid headlines. The motivational value systems are somewhat crude compared to their middle class equivalents, and their thought processes quite unrefined.

 

Similarly, if such a person joins my circle of friends for a Friday night pint in our local, they would find it difficult to contribute to our conversations because they have no knowledge or understanding of the topics we discuss, and in many cases are confused by our vocabulary. Even the brighter ones – some do have clear intelligence – are limited badly by their narrow breadth of life experience and education, leaving them unable to raise their game in more educated or eloquent company.

 

It comes down to them living in different worlds – and the blunt truth is that the working class world is very different to that of the middle classes.

[Greybeard]

I remember my sister once commenting that the more designer clothes someone wore, the chances are the more common they were. No-one classy needs to try that hard.

 

StarSparkle

 

You mean the fur-coat and no knickers syndrome ?

[nick2]

Buying designer clothes because they are designer doesn't mean you have class or taste, but buying clothes that you like that happen to be "designer" is a different thing.

 

ie. Someone buying a Dolce & Gabana shirt (with huge logos) to "impress the birds" or a Stone Island jacket to impress fellow football fans is not the same as someone buying a pair of Vivienne Westwood bondage trousers to complete their "going to ASDA" outfit.

 

IMO

[cloudybay]

Anyone whom tries to define class, by definition, doesn't have any.

 

I value my friends by their self-worth and by that alone. The size of their house, the jobs they do, the pubs they drink in, the cars they drive are all irelevant.

 

What is relevant is how they behave and treat me and likewise how I treat them.

 

A real friend will go to the ends of the earth for someone they care about, regardless as to the consequences. Now, that really is class.

[StarSparkle]

Anyone whom tries to define class, by definition, doesn't have any.

 

I value my friends by their self-worth and by that alone. The size of their house, the jobs they do, the pubs they drink in, the cars they drive are all irelevant.

 

What is relevant is how they behave and treat me and likewise how I treat them.

 

A real friend will go to the ends of the earth for someone they care about, regardless as to the consequences. Now, that really is class.

 

That goes without saying to me. Well said, Cloudy

 

StarSparkle

[trips]

What you raise is extremely relevant – people ‘hang out’ with peers of like mind.

 

I find it very difficult to hold a conversation with uneducated people – they talk drivel, have limited understanding of the world around them, and tend to be interested in crass subjects like football, gutter TV and tabloid headlines. The motivational value systems are somewhat crude compared to their middle class equivalents, and their thought processes quite unrefined.

 

Similarly, if such a person joins my circle of friends for a Friday night pint in our local, they would find it difficult to contribute to our conversations because they have no knowledge or understanding of the topics we discuss, and in many cases are confused by our vocabulary. Even the brighter ones – some do have clear intelligence – are limited badly by their narrow breadth of life experience and education, leaving them unable to raise their game in more educated or eloquent company.

 

It comes down to them living in different worlds – and the blunt truth is that the working class world is very different to that of the middle classes.

 

Is this guy for real? I hope this is a joke.

[nick2]

Is this guy for real?

 

No, he's a character from a Fry and Laurie sketch.

[Cyclone]

Anyone whom tries to define class, by definition, doesn't have any.

 

I value my friends by their self-worth and by that alone. The size of their house, the jobs they do, the pubs they drink in, the cars they drive are all irelevant.

 

What is relevant is how they behave and treat me and likewise how I treat them.

 

A real friend will go to the ends of the earth for someone they care about, regardless as to the consequences. Now, that really is class.

 

Those things may be relevant to you as a friend, but the government is probably more interested in socio economic status. Defining class isn't a bad thing, it's just one more way of categorising people into useful groups which show common behaviour and values.

[Mathom]

You can't have an indicator of class that only works if people have children.

 

I just think that home ownership became pretty ubiquitous in the 80's and 90's, at the moment it's more to do with when you got on the ladder and from the 80's onwards was little to do with class.

I'll admit that you won't find many middle class people in council housing or renting, but the reverse is not true.

My grandparents bought their council house soon after the right to buy was introduced, but my grandfather was a miner for his entire working life. As working class as it was possible to be.

I also know quite a few graduates working in various places who don't own a house and probably won't now for 10 years, simply because of the change in the price of housing compared to the change in salaries. Yet they are all in middle class professions and generally from middle class families.

So what do I think home ownership indicates... well partly it indicates generation and this will get stronger, and I think that's about all. A lack of housing might be an indicator of being working class (or underclass) but having a house doesn't mean the opposite.

 

Yes you can take what happens when people have children as a judging point, as indicators are very fluid and vary according to age and even which part of the country you live in. For example seeing a local in the Peaks wearing a Barbour does not automatically mean they are upper class, they could easily be working class. And single people and couples without children behave very differently to families.

 

Nice point on the fact that nowadays, owing to graduate debt and expensive homes, a lot of the middle classes rent rather than own. A lot of people miss that. Even so, it's always been common for Upper Middles in places like London and Edinburgh to rent city flats. That again shows how your location affects what your life says about your class!