Can we start laughing at Leeds United yet?

[Zomoniac]

Yeah it was so unfair the way the rules were applied to you despite your boards pitiful attempts to find a loophole

 

But it wasn't a rule though, was it. The docking of ten points last season was a rule. The 'rule' to dock 15 points if the FA don't like the way you came out of administration was magically invented just after we came out of administration.

[Zomoniac]

Thats one thing that gets me about Leeds fans. They haven't really won much at all and they include finishing 2nd in their honours list!!!!

 

When you're firm outsiders and go into a tournament expecting ridicule and finish 2nd or are a semi-finalist I think it's an achievement. It might not put silverware in the cabinet, but it's something to look back on fondly. Do Wednesday fans consider the 1993 season, losing both cup finals (and beating United in the semi) to be a dismal failure, or an achievement that sadly lacked the end product?

[Zomoniac]

Too true the joyless United of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskaer... and Arsenal of such dull journeymen as Henry, Pires, Bergkamp, Lungberg... just didn't approach the breathtaking attacking football of Smith, Bowyer, Viduka..

 

Talk about delusional arrogance.

 

Just because none of them have gone on to do anything of merit since leaving doesn't mean they weren't great with us. We beat Man Utd, and Arsenal, and Chelsea, and Liverpool, and were the last English team in the Champions League, and looked on target to win the league but bottled it at the last minute like we always do.

 

But we didn't win anything, and we are dirty Leeds scum, therefore Kewell, Ferdinand, Radebe, Dacourt, Batty et al are obviously talentless hacks. In much the same way as Waddle, Hirst, Carbone, di Canio and Walker.

 

I'm not really the one who's delusional, since you appear to be of the mind that we are the worst team in history, worthy of nothing and would play better football if all our players were replaced with heroin addicts who are all dead.

[BasilRathbon]

But it wasn't a rule though, was it. The docking of ten points last season was a rule. The 'rule' to dock 15 points if the FA don't like the way you came out of administration was magically invented just after we came out of administration.

 

Have you ever considered a career as a labour party spin doctor? You're starting to sound like a small child wailing "Waarrghh! It's not fair" over and over again.

 

Actually Leeds got away remarkably lightly. Here's an impartial explanation of why Leeds were deducted the 15 points, taken from http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/05/01/why_the_leeds_verdict_was_fair.html;

 

"On May 4 last year Leeds called in the administrators and announced that the club would be sold to a group of companies headed by Ken Bates. They were immediately docked 10 points, ensuring relegation to League One, where they were headed in any case.

 

After a summer of financial turmoil, the Football League granted Leeds permission to play in League One this season, but only with an additional 15-point deduction. The penalty was a result of the club operating other than under the Football League's well-established rules on insolvency while a transfer of League membership was made to the legal entity (owner: Ken Bates) to which the club now belonged."

 

Leeds agreed to the 15 point penalty at the time; so why, once having accepted it as fair, did they decide to appeal against it? Furthermore, other clubs found guilty of financial dodgy dealings have received worse penalties; in the 1990s Swindon Town were relegated two divisions and in 2007 Boston United (who went into administration at the same time as Leeds) were relegated from the Football League two levels down to The Conference North.

 

It would seem therefore that Leeds got away remarkably lightly and should actually have been demoted to League Two rather than be allowed to start the season in League One.

 

Perhaps, as a punishment for all the disruption and frivolous legal action they've undertaken this season, Leeds should be given a more serious penalty for the 2008/9 - I suggest a deduction of around 30 points would be fair.

[Zomoniac]

Have you ever considered a career as a labour party spin doctor? You're starting to sound like a small child wailing "Waarrghh! It's not fair" over and over again.

 

Actually Leeds got away remarkably lightly. Here's an impartial explanation of why Leeds were deducted the 15 points, taken from http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/05/01/why_the_leeds_verdict_was_fair.html;

 

"On May 4 last year Leeds called in the administrators and announced that the club would be sold to a group of companies headed by Ken Bates. They were immediately docked 10 points, ensuring relegation to League One, where they were headed in any case.

 

After a summer of financial turmoil, the Football League granted Leeds permission to play in League One this season, but only with an additional 15-point deduction. The penalty was a result of the club operating other than under the Football League's well-established rules on insolvency while a transfer of League membership was made to the legal entity (owner: Ken Bates) to which the club now belonged."

 

Leeds agreed to the 15 point penalty at the time; so why, once having accepted it as fair, did they decide to appeal against it? Furthermore, other clubs found guilty of financial dodgy dealings have received worse penalties; in the 1990s Swindon Town were relegated two divisions and in 2007 Boston United (who went into administration at the same time as Leeds) were relegated from the Football League two levels down to The Conference North.

 

It would seem therefore that Leeds got away remarkably lightly and should actually have been demoted to League Two rather than be allowed to start the season in League One.

 

Perhaps, as a punishment for all the disruption and frivolous legal action they've undertaken this season, Leeds should be given a more serious penalty for the 2008/9 - I suggest a deduction of around 30 points would be fair.

 

If said rules are "well established", why is there a different penalty imposed every time the rule is broken? If it's actually in the rule book, then I don't believe a penalty would not be associated in it. If what we did is in the book and it is stated we should drop down two divisions, then that's exactly what should've happened. I do not wish to sound like a "small child wailing", but if what we did was akin to that of Boston then why were we not relegated two divisions. Because it's being made up as they go along. Which is what my problem is.

 

The reason we accepted the penalty is, as you well know, that the league decided to approach us the day before the first match of the season to say "you're starting on -15, object and we won't let you play". Sounds like blackmail, really. We were given no choice whatsoever if the club were to continue.

 

If this had happened to your club you would feel exactly the same way. I don't mind when we are penalised in accordance with the book. I don't mind that we went down two divisions because we weren't good enough, and I don't mind that a superior Doncaster team beat us. I wouldn't mind a 15 point penalty if anywhere it said that what happened should be punished with a 15 point penalty. But then I really can't win here, can I? I'm guessing you think we lost the 73 CWC final fairly as well?

[geocol]

…

, therefore Kewell, Ferdinand, Radebe, Dacourt, Batty et al are obviously talentless hacks.

Radebe was also very talented at feigning injury, and Batty very talented at crippling opposition players… remember a certain quarter final appearance at Hillsborough?

 

 

I can't congratulate Donny. They hate both Sheffield teams.

It’s true. We experience “hate” from Barnsley, Doncaster and Rotherham, teams that we have generally wanted to do well in the past when they were in lower leagues to us, but they still hate us and accuse us of being arrogant - probably in a similar way to that Zomoniac feels about our reaction to Leeds.

 

I think the situation was highlighted during the 1992/93 campaign.

Leeds fans were wishing us good luck againmst Kaiserslautern; but we couldn't do the same to them against Stuttgart and Rangers.

 

But, I still can't bring myself to gloat about Leeds staying down at the moment; I'm still relieved we had the luck (and the astute management of Mr Sturrock) and managed to get up back up through the play offs, three years ago... TODAY if anyone has forgotten. Never has a barrel of Arkells and the bottles of Veuve Cliquot waiting at the Avon hotel for us after the game, tasted as good.

[Zomoniac]

Radebe was also very talented at feigning injury, and Batty very talented at crippling opposition players… remember a certain quarter final appearance at Hillsborough?

 

First time I've ever heard someone accuse Radebe of being a cheat. And yes Batty made some hard challenges, probably excessive at times. You'll be hard pushed to find a good holding midfielder who isn't a little reckless occassionally. Keane and Veira were the best in the business but as crippling as they came. But yes, he made a bad challenge once. Doesn't take anything away from his talents. di Canio shoved a referee over. Doesn't mean that he wasn't a great player.

[Zomoniac]

It’s true. We experience “hate” from Barnsley, Doncaster and Rotherham, teams that we have generally wanted to do well in the past when they were in lower leagues to us, but they still hate us and accuse us of being arrogant - probably in a similar way to that Zomoniac feels about our reaction to Leeds.

 

I think the situation was highlighted during the 1992/93 campaign.

Leeds fans were wishing us good luck againmst Kaiserslautern; but we couldn't do the same to them against Stuttgart and Rangers.

 

But, I still can't bring myself to gloat about Leeds staying down at the moment; I'm still relieved we had the luck (and the astute management of Mr Sturrock) and managed to get up back up through the play offs, three years ago... TODAY if anyone has forgotten. Never has a barrel of Arkells and the bottles of Veuve Cliquot waiting at the Avon hotel for us after the game, tasted as good.

 

There we go, this is a nice post! It actually put a smile on my face for the first time in this thread. I have always in the past (prior to yesterday!) wished the best for Wednesday. As has been mentioned previously at my school (in Featherstone) the support was split pretty much 50/50 between Man Utd (so not proper supporters then) and Sheffield Wednesday, and I always sided with the Wednesday fans so have something of a soft spot for them. There was me and a couple of other people supporting Leeds, but very few.

 

I just find it somewhat unfair that I can walk the streets of Sheffield in a Leeds shirt and everyone thinks that I'm a dirty scumbag just waiting to start a riot or break a chair over someone's head or burn their house down or impregnate their mother just because I support the team of my hometown that has a fanbase of which <0.1% are complete and utter losers. Apparently a few of them were at it again in some pubs in London on Saturday night before the final. And believe me, I hate them too.

[geocol]

I just find it somewhat unfair that I can walk the streets of Sheffield in a Leeds shirt and everyone thinks that I'm a dirty scumbag just waiting to start a riot or break a chair over someone's head or burn their house down or impregnate their mother just because I support the team of my hometown that has a fanbase of which <0.1% are complete and utter losers. Apparently a few of them were at it again in some pubs in London on Saturday night before the final. And believe me, I hate them too.

 

In other words, a bit like being German when you have been born since 1945, and you're tarred with the same brush as generations before.

 

Having the past rammed down their throats for sixty odd years, has started to make some of the youinger intelligent members of their society, rebel now (and hate the Dutch because of all the past taunts).

 

Something, that I guess, you've got to live with for a while

[geocol]

First time I've ever heard someone accuse Radebe of being a cheat.

I was surpsied at that too, but on the last occasion I saw him he felt it necessary to keep falling down in his own half, each time the opposition mounted a serious attack!