discodown Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Would people be intrested in music like funky house and that sort of genre.probably there was a night at cellar 35 called decadance that was funky and electro that drew some interest. to be fair if you want to stand out you're going to have to do something different from the steady diet of pop and the same gay records that are done to death on the gay scene that people complain about but still go to events because there is no real choice not to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigpugh Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I would just like to chip in and say that me and my partner are sat home saying 'im not going out cos dempseys our only option'. ! lol. Seriously though, James is right, there could be a niche for a gay night that is summat a bit different. I associate the boardwalk and under it with decent live music, why not go for a night which is basically gay friendly or 'attitude free' and is something like: Live music Indie Rock? Lots of 'the gays' dont really want to just go somewhere where those same 500 or so people are all the time. Just cos i'm not straight i dont necessarilly want the same kind of night out every tiome i go out. You would need to be prepared for a market trend i call the 'Scene Blip': 1) night/ venue opens, 2) existing customer base divert to new venue because it's new. 3) venues at this point often tailor things to suit this crowd. 4) novelty wears off, or next new place opens, trade levels off. 5) People who went along in opening phase looking for something 'new' maybe find that during the initial because a lot of the regular crowd are there or because of 3), so it feels fairly similar to other venues. 6) Before the venue can re-assert its 'niche' and attract back those looking for an alternative, night pulled or venue closes. So stick to a niche, and be prepared to ride out the lull after the initial rush for long enough to pull in those of us who ARE at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHsheff Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I associate the boardwalk and under it with decent live music, why not go for a night which is basically gay friendly or 'attitude free' and is something like...... Just call me naive, but, in this enlightened age, are places NOT gay-friendly or attitude free? What is the difference 'tween one that is, and one that isn't? Is it that gays don't feel happy snoggin' in corners at 'normal' events? Personally, I wouldn't turn a hair - people getting off with each other is people getting off with each other, are there places where it's not acceptable, then? Obviously, I live in a rarified atmosphere! Maybe I've spent too much times in 'gay' places, because same-sex couples wouldn't trouble me any more than hetro couples would - ie, please try not to do it under my nose (find a dark corner, for goodness sake) so I don't trip over you on my way to the ladies. Hey ho, one day the enlightened time will come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chox Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well, I've seen the "gay nights" come and go for years and years. Ultimately, you can only hope to achieve long-term success by learning something from other venues around the country. Fundamentally, if it is to be a "gay night" then it has to be just that. This means it should be aimed-at and sold-to gay people. This also means specifically not falling into the same old cliche of claiming that you're going to be a "safe space for people of all persuasions". This inevitably means that half of the place will comprise of the attached girl friends who are either too sad to hang-out in straight clubs, or who think they're being incredibly cool and "right-on" by mixing with the gays. Bless 'em, they might think they're great but frankly most of us don't want to be fighting past girls who want to have their photo taken with a poof or a drag queen, or who want to do some grinding on the dance floor with someone they know doesn't want to get them into bed. It's all very nice for them but it leaves the rest of us feeling like (as ever) we're the free entertainment. You can see this kind of rubbish at Dempseys any weekend - a cage on the dance floor full of straight girls - how, by any standards, does that consitiute gay? Then they wonder why most people wouldn't be seen dead in there... The solutions to success are simple, it's just that nobody in Sheffield embraces them. If it's gay then it needs some cute lads behind the bar (prefereably topless - yeh, how's that for a cliche but guess what, it works). Not sour-faced girls or snotty straight lads who want to emphasise that they're straight but they're just doing a job - eugh. It needs a few drag queens, some half-decent looking dancers to look at (it's called "eye candy" and it needs a mix of pop music pure and simple. That means chart stuff and music that people recognise and want to dance to. It specifically does not mean ragga, high nrg, or, God-forbid, a dance version of "nine til five" (Dempseys favourite floor-clearer). Thing is, pop music is called pop music because it is precisely that. All very well for the sneering "trendies" to claim that we want indie stuff, progressive house or any other fancy stuff but it's simply not true. There's nothing worse than a DJ trying just that little bit too hard to be cool. You only have to carefully watch a dance floor to see what gets people putting their drinks down to dance. It's not the "cool" stuff; it's Kylie, Girls Aloud, even (dare I say it) Steps! It's incredible to see how people will wrap themselves in knots to avoid this very clear fact which can be verified by simply watching how a crowd reacts. Most importantly, it requires a door policy which doesn't involve simply allowing anybody in providing they look like they won't cause a fight. It requires a clear and concise policy of stating that if you're not gay, or you're not with someone who is, then you should go elsewhere. That's the definition of a gay night, although you'd be lucky to find anyone who actually understands or accepts that in Sheffield. Okay, I know it's a worry to try and make a venue succes if there isn't an "open door" policy for anyone who wants to come in and spend money. But this is short-termism at its very worst. You can only hope to get a strong and reliable customer base if the customers know what they're getting, like what they're getting, and know it's going to stay that way. It requires staying power and that's something which club organisers have never had in Sheffield. They open the doors, panic, and change the place almost weekly in a desperate bid to attract custom. Most importantly, any new venue of this nature needs to be advertised and promoted. It's pointless just opening the doors and hoping for the best. It has to be constantly advertised. How? Well it needs good old fashioned leg work like in the "good old days" - people handing out flyers outside places like Climax, posters on walls, cards left in other "gay" venues or given to people in person, a web site (and cards/flyers that promote it so people know it's there) and things like radio, newspaper features, and so on. There's absolutely no chance of making a success of a venue unless all the potential customers know what the night is, where it is and when it is. Although Adam's efforts with Fab were largely thwarted by the venue's location, his main problem was that most people never even knew the place was there - some still don't even know it ever was! There's no magic required - it just needs an acceptance of the fact that the majority of potential customers don't want anything fancy, progressive, alternative, mixed, or anything else like that. They want a simple, no-bullsh*t gay night which is precisely that. It's not rocket science and yet time and time again, the Sheffield venues just can't bring themselves to accept this. Just take a look at any other major city to see which venues work and which ones actually get people through the doors. It's the simple, good old-fashioned places that work and always do work. I know - I must sound terribly old-fashioned, un-cool and blinkered, but I've been round the block more than a few times, I've edited gay magazines, written books, talked to all kinds of people and seen a lot in many places over a long time. I've seen clearly what works and what doesn't. Maybe one day someone in Sheffield might just get it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alter_ego Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 All very well for the sneering "trendies" to claim that we want indie stuff, progressive house or any other fancy stuff but it's simply not true. Chox You and I obviously have different tastes when it comes to the type of night we enjoy going to. I won't say that your recipe for a successful night is wrong but it's not the sort of night I would want or attend on a regular basis. I'm only going to take issue with one thing you said and that's the sneering trendies comment. I don't believe I'm sneering and I'm certainly not trendy and I wasn't saying everybody wanted indie. It was just my choice. Drag queens, Kylie, Girls Aloud & Steps. If I was subject to that every week I'd chuck myself in the river...without my armbands & inflateable rubber ring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discodown Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well, I've seen the "gay nights" come and go for years and years. Ultimately, you can only hope to achieve long-term success by learning something from other venues around the country. Fundamentally, if it is to be a "gay night" then it has to be just that. This means it should be aimed-at and sold-to gay people. This also means specifically not falling into the same old cliche of claiming that you're going to be a "safe space for people of all persuasions". This inevitably means that half of the place will comprise of the attached girl friends who are either too sad to hang-out in straight clubs, or who think they're being incredibly cool and "right-on" by mixing with the gays. Bless 'em, they might think they're great but frankly most of us don't want to be fighting past girls who want to have their photo taken with a poof or a drag queen, or who want to do some grinding on the dance floor with someone they know doesn't want to get them into bed. It's all very nice for them but it leaves the rest of us feeling like (as ever) we're the free entertainment. You can see this kind of rubbish at Dempseys any weekend - a cage on the dance floor full of straight girls - how, by any standards, does that consitiute gay? Then they wonder why most people wouldn't be seen dead in there... The solutions to success are simple, it's just that nobody in Sheffield embraces them. If it's gay then it needs some cute lads behind the bar (prefereably topless - yeh, how's that for a cliche but guess what, it works). Not sour-faced girls or snotty straight lads who want to emphasise that they're straight but they're just doing a job - eugh. It needs a few drag queens, some half-decent looking dancers to look at (it's called "eye candy" and it needs a mix of pop music pure and simple. That means chart stuff and music that people recognise and want to dance to. It specifically does not mean ragga, high nrg, or, God-forbid, a dance version of "nine til five" (Dempseys favourite floor-clearer). Thing is, pop music is called pop music because it is precisely that. All very well for the sneering "trendies" to claim that we want indie stuff, progressive house or any other fancy stuff but it's simply not true. There's nothing worse than a DJ trying just that little bit too hard to be cool. You only have to carefully watch a dance floor to see what gets people putting their drinks down to dance. It's not the "cool" stuff; it's Kylie, Girls Aloud, even (dare I say it) Steps! It's incredible to see how people will wrap themselves in knots to avoid this very clear fact which can be verified by simply watching how a crowd reacts. Most importantly, it requires a door policy which doesn't involve simply allowing anybody in providing they look like they won't cause a fight. It requires a clear and concise policy of stating that if you're not gay, or you're not with someone who is, then you should go elsewhere. That's the definition of a gay night, although you'd be lucky to find anyone who actually understands or accepts that in Sheffield. Okay, I know it's a worry to try and make a venue succes if there isn't an "open door" policy for anyone who wants to come in and spend money. But this is short-termism at its very worst. You can only hope to get a strong and reliable customer base if the customers know what they're getting, like what they're getting, and know it's going to stay that way. It requires staying power and that's something which club organisers have never had in Sheffield. They open the doors, panic, and change the place almost weekly in a desperate bid to attract custom. Most importantly, any new venue of this nature needs to be advertised and promoted. It's pointless just opening the doors and hoping for the best. It has to be constantly advertised. How? Well it needs good old fashioned leg work like in the "good old days" - people handing out flyers outside places like Climax, posters on walls, cards left in other "gay" venues or given to people in person, a web site (and cards/flyers that promote it so people know it's there) and things like radio, newspaper features, and so on. There's absolutely no chance of making a success of a venue unless all the potential customers know what the night is, where it is and when it is. Although Adam's efforts with Fab were largely thwarted by the venue's location, his main problem was that most people never even knew the place was there - some still don't even know it ever was! There's no magic required - it just needs an acceptance of the fact that the majority of potential customers don't want anything fancy, progressive, alternative, mixed, or anything else like that. They want a simple, no-bullsh*t gay night which is precisely that. It's not rocket science and yet time and time again, the Sheffield venues just can't bring themselves to accept this. Just take a look at any other major city to see which venues work and which ones actually get people through the doors. It's the simple, good old-fashioned places that work and always do work. I know - I must sound terribly old-fashioned, un-cool and blinkered, but I've been round the block more than a few times, I've edited gay magazines, written books, talked to all kinds of people and seen a lot in many places over a long time. I've seen clearly what works and what doesn't. Maybe one day someone in Sheffield might just get it right! I don't agree with all of it but this man needs a job promoting your night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well, I've seen the "gay nights" come and go for years and years. Ultimately, you can only hope to achieve long-term success by learning something from other venues around the country. Fundamentally, if it is to be a "gay night" then it has to be just that. This means it should be aimed-at and sold-to gay people. This also means specifically not falling into the same old cliche of claiming that you're going to be a "safe space for people of all persuasions". This inevitably means that half of the place will comprise of the attached girl friends who are either too sad to hang-out in straight clubs, or who think they're being incredibly cool and "right-on" by mixing with the gays. Bless 'em, they might think they're great but frankly most of us don't want to be fighting past girls who want to have their photo taken with a poof or a drag queen, or who want to do some grinding on the dance floor with someone they know doesn't want to get them into bed. It's all very nice for them but it leaves the rest of us feeling like (as ever) we're the free entertainment. You can see this kind of rubbish at Dempseys any weekend - a cage on the dance floor full of straight girls - how, by any standards, does that consitiute gay? Then they wonder why most people wouldn't be seen dead in there... The solutions to success are simple, it's just that nobody in Sheffield embraces them. If it's gay then it needs some cute lads behind the bar (prefereably topless - yeh, how's that for a cliche but guess what, it works). Not sour-faced girls or snotty straight lads who want to emphasise that they're straight but they're just doing a job - eugh. It needs a few drag queens, some half-decent looking dancers to look at (it's called "eye candy" and it needs a mix of pop music pure and simple. That means chart stuff and music that people recognise and want to dance to. It specifically does not mean ragga, high nrg, or, God-forbid, a dance version of "nine til five" (Dempseys favourite floor-clearer). Thing is, pop music is called pop music because it is precisely that. All very well for the sneering "trendies" to claim that we want indie stuff, progressive house or any other fancy stuff but it's simply not true. There's nothing worse than a DJ trying just that little bit too hard to be cool. You only have to carefully watch a dance floor to see what gets people putting their drinks down to dance. It's not the "cool" stuff; it's Kylie, Girls Aloud, even (dare I say it) Steps! It's incredible to see how people will wrap themselves in knots to avoid this very clear fact which can be verified by simply watching how a crowd reacts. Most importantly, it requires a door policy which doesn't involve simply allowing anybody in providing they look like they won't cause a fight. It requires a clear and concise policy of stating that if you're not gay, or you're not with someone who is, then you should go elsewhere. That's the definition of a gay night, although you'd be lucky to find anyone who actually understands or accepts that in Sheffield. Okay, I know it's a worry to try and make a venue succes if there isn't an "open door" policy for anyone who wants to come in and spend money. But this is short-termism at its very worst. You can only hope to get a strong and reliable customer base if the customers know what they're getting, like what they're getting, and know it's going to stay that way. It requires staying power and that's something which club organisers have never had in Sheffield. They open the doors, panic, and change the place almost weekly in a desperate bid to attract custom. Most importantly, any new venue of this nature needs to be advertised and promoted. It's pointless just opening the doors and hoping for the best. It has to be constantly advertised. How? Well it needs good old fashioned leg work like in the "good old days" - people handing out flyers outside places like Climax, posters on walls, cards left in other "gay" venues or given to people in person, a web site (and cards/flyers that promote it so people know it's there) and things like radio, newspaper features, and so on. There's absolutely no chance of making a success of a venue unless all the potential customers know what the night is, where it is and when it is. Although Adam's efforts with Fab were largely thwarted by the venue's location, his main problem was that most people never even knew the place was there - some still don't even know it ever was! There's no magic required - it just needs an acceptance of the fact that the majority of potential customers don't want anything fancy, progressive, alternative, mixed, or anything else like that. They want a simple, no-bullsh*t gay night which is precisely that. It's not rocket science and yet time and time again, the Sheffield venues just can't bring themselves to accept this. Just take a look at any other major city to see which venues work and which ones actually get people through the doors. It's the simple, good old-fashioned places that work and always do work. I know - I must sound terribly old-fashioned, un-cool and blinkered, but I've been round the block more than a few times, I've edited gay magazines, written books, talked to all kinds of people and seen a lot in many places over a long time. I've seen clearly what works and what doesn't. Maybe one day someone in Sheffield might just get it right! My only question is how would you enforce this ? "You dont look gay, you aint coming in" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chox Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Alter - I'm generalising of course. I'm sure there are plenty of straight folks who have no attitude, no agenda, and who simply go along to gay nights with their mates. That's all well and good. The people that annoy/offend and inevitably discourage gay people from sticking with a gay night are the groups of girls on their own, and the straight couples/groups who turn-up for a variety of motives. Often it's because they think a place must be "cool" if it's gay and therefore they want to be there, or at least be able to tell everyone that they've been there. Then there's the others that are simply looking for somewhere that's open, selling alcohol and playing music, and they don't give a stuff whether it's a gay night or not. Either way, they inevitably annoy lots of people who don't necessarily complain about it - they just don't bother going any more. Ghost - as for enforcing a "gay policy" it's obviously never perfect but the fact of the matter is that loads of places around the country manage to do it, so I don't see why Sheffield has to be an exception. In most places it seems sufficient to ask people if they're gay or if they're coming-in with gay people (ie- invited). If they're not, they're turned away. naturally, some people will lie just to get through the door but this kind of policy has a cumulative effect. People will soon get tired of having to pretend to be gay just to get into a venue and they'll just go elsewhere. besides, door staff generally know what they're doing and they can spot trouble-makers and bullsh*tters when they see them. It just seems to be that at our so-called gay venues, they're all too keen to turn a blind eye and let anyone through the door if they've got money in their pockets. And as for the whole Girls Aloud, Kylie and Steps thing, I know that some people would rather kill themselves than listen to that sort of stuff. That's fine - everyone has their own taste. The fundamental problem is that the tastes of individuals don't make a gay night successful. It has to cater for the widest possible audience and that inevitably means pop music. Far too many promoters try to be clever, hip, cool, modern, progressive, alternative, indie, blah, blah... They miss the key point that while they're all desperately trying to create their own niche and avoid "selling out" to the pop music culture, absoloutely nobody actually gives customers an honest good old-fashioned night of Kylie etc. As has been mentioned before, the only night that seems to have any staying power is Climax and look at the dynamics of that event. Admittedly there are occasional exceptions but for most of the time they play pop music, pure and simple. And guess what? The dance floor is full. They keep the slightly more obscure stuff for a side room. Heaven-knows Climax isn't exactly the perfect night out but at least they don't pretend to be something they're not. Nothing's ever perfect but if anyone seriously wants a venue to succeed, they need to forget about being alternative - I mean, alternative to what exactly? There's nothing to be an alternative to in Sheffield! For years and years we just haven't had a simple, no-nonsense, popular music, gay-only night. We've gone from one half-baked idea to another while every other city has gone from success to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimsid2000 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Ladies and gentlemen please put your hands together for Mr. Graham Norton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborundum Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Ladies and gentlemen please put your hands together for Mr. Graham Norton. Well I dont want that sort of gay venue bieng surrounded by Mr Graham Nortons or indeed Gayhams ... I'd go mad and very tipsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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