Halibut Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 So, in summary. Torture is wrong. We shouldn't be party to it, because we're a civilised nation. Err, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 You're getting a bit confused in your thinking there - I'll try and clarify. Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/society. For example, 'killing is wrong' and 'we have a right not to be killed'. The vast majority of people would share that view. A murderer breaks that convention. The victim has that right violated. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say with this 'you can't give to one without taking from the other' thing. It's not us / society that's doing the giving/taking, it's the murderer. No confusion at all I asked the question, Whats your ideas on equal rights? The murderer is punished and his rights could be said to have been violated, as he thinks he has the right to murder. "Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/society." The vast majority of people share the view Abu should go, are their rights being violated, he seems to have broken the convention. "Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/ society", so the group/ society are giving and taking away rights, as I said you can't give to one without taking from another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 No confusion at all I asked the question, Whats your ideas on equal rights? The murderer is punished and his rights could be said to have been violated, as he thinks he has the right to murder. "Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/society." The vast majority of people share the view Abu should go, are their rights being violated, he seems to have broken the convention. "Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/ society", so the group/ society are giving and taking away rights, as I said you can't give to one without taking from another. Are you talking about imaginary rights or those enshrined in law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 The vast majority of people share the view Abu should go, are their rights being violated, he seems to have broken the convention. So you're arguing that your right to get rid of Qatada is being violated? Is that a human right? I'll provide a quick answer; no, no it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 The murderer is punished and his rights could be said to have been violated, as he thinks he has the right to murder. He doesn't have a 'right to murder'. He chose to step outside of society's rules and do that. "Rights are an idea shared by a group of people/society." The vast majority of people share the view Abu should go, are their rights being violated, he seems to have broken the convention. No, there's no such thing as the 'right to get rid of people you don't like the look of.' so the group/ society are giving and taking away rights, as I said you can't give to one without taking from another. As I said, you're clearly rather confused. Perhaps you could explain whose rights you feel are being taken away by Mr Qatada's presence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 So you're arguing that your right to get rid of Qatada is being violated? Is that a human right? I'll provide a quick answer; no, no it isn't. And your post shows there are no equal rights, or rights at all for that matter other than natural rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 It shows you lack understanding, or we could all make our own rights up. "My right to punch a toddler in the face is being violated by its mother." There are reasons we consider torture to be against human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 It shows you lack understanding, or we could all make our own rights up. "My right to punch a toddler in the face is being violated by its mother." There are reasons we consider torture to be against human rights. Who made up human rights and equal rights. And yet our governments who signed up to the human rights still use them. Your right to punch a toddler in the face is being prevented by it's mother, you still have the right, why you would want to seems a bit odd. In the case of Abu, the right to a peaceful life by citizens in the UK is being threatened by his presence, the right to his removal would prevent that, that right is at the moment being denied. See you can't give to one without taking from the other, no equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Who made up human rights and equal rights. And yet our governments who signed up to the human rights still use them. Your right to punch a toddler in the face is being prevented by it's mother, you still have the right, why you would want to seems a bit odd. In the case of Abu, the right to a peaceful life by citizens in the UK is being threatened by his presence, the right to his removal would prevent that, that right is at the moment being denied. See you can't give to one without taking from the other, no equality. Everybody has a right to not be effected by the use of torture. Everybody has a right to a fair trial. Those rights are enshrined in law. What legal right of yours is being violated by Qatada's presence here until he can be extradited to Jordan without fear or being compromised by torture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Who made up human rights They come from all over the place. The church first put forward the idea of rights, originally divine and for Kings alone - and then people started to ask "where are my rights, if God gives them?". Other philosophers have taken them on since then, while others have criticised them. You're not doing anything new - you're just doing it badly. Your right to punch a toddler in the face is being prevented by it's mother, you still have the right You really think people have the right to punch a toddler in the face? :D I made it up to show how silly your position was, but still you hold to it. In the case of Abu, the right to a peaceful life by citizens in the UK is being threatened by his presence, the right to his removal would prevent that, that right is at the moment being denied. My right to a peaceful life is being threatened by my neighbours shouting at their kids. Maybe we can deport them to Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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