mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Why invent 'rights' and make them justiciable? Why not simply make torture unlawful and prosecute its exponents? Oh, wait, that already happens. Where does that happen? Who is responsible for prosecuting nation states? Why invent rights and make them justicable? The Holocaust would be one pretty major reason wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Where does that happen? Who is responsible for prosecuting nation states? A country cannot be prosecuted; but, then, a country does not torture. People torture- and they should certainly be prosecuted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 A country cannot be prosecuted; but, then, a country does not torture. People torture- and they should certainly be prosecuted for it. Who then, is responsible for those prosecutions if the regime in question approves of and embraces the practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 But Jordan does not, as far as we know. AND, again, that's his country- so why need the UK worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 But Jordan does not, as far as we know. AND, again, that's his country- so why need the UK worry? You were skating worryingly close to international law there weren't you? I'm not surprised you have retreated. The UN Committee against Torture and Amnesty International would disagree with you on Jordan's use of torture. We should worry because we are civilised human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Yes, we should worry about torture- but that's not a reason to assist a foreign national against his own country's government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Yes, we should worry about torture- but that's not a reason to assist a foreign national against his own country's government. How are we assisting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 By the odd viewpoints that lead to his continual presence in the UK, not conducively to the public good. And is he paying his own legal fees? No, most likely we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 By the odd viewpoints that lead to his continual presence in the UK, not conducively to he public good. And is he paying his own legal fees? No, most likely we are. Those odd viewpoints are that he may be subject to torture or that torture may be used to gather evidence against him. Seeing as you have already admitted that, as civilised people, we should worry about torture I am really not sure where you are going with this. It is either justified that we should worry about, and therefore oppose, torture or it is odd. Which is it? How is opposing torture not conducive to the public good? Or are you claiming that we have no resposibility to act in the name of global good? If so, that would be quite a Little England mentality. Should we not oppose torture if it costs us money? If so, then how much? What is an acceptable ratio of cost to value in opposing torture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I refer you both to Skinz' excellent post - I think the smiley face in my comment might have given something away,Ill leave it for you to decide what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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