mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Why? What would it achieve? Justice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Justice.... Lets say someone kills a loved one of yours because they believe they said something bad about muhammed and they flee to KSA and they refuse to deport them because we "barbarically" don't offer legal protection to muhammeds honour as they do. Would you feel justice was served? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Lets say someone kills a loved one of yours because they believe they said something bad about muhammed and they flee to KSA and they refuse to deport them because we "barbarically" don't offer legal protection to muhammeds honour as they do. Would you feel justice was served? No, I imagine I would be full of fury and grief and incapable of viewing the situation dispassionately as justice demands. To save you some effort, there is no spin that can be put on this to make torture okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 No, I imagine I would be full of fury and grief and incapable of viewing the situation dispassionately as justice demands. To save you some effort, there is no spin that can be put on this to make torture okay. I don't think that's what Andy is saying or implying..I think (ready to be corrected) he's saying in this particular case he doesn't care..he just wants him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 No, I imagine I would be full of fury and grief and incapable of viewing the situation dispassionately as justice demands. To save you some effort, there is no spin that can be put on this to make torture okay. What is torture? Police giving a suspect a bit of a shoeing would fit the legal definition, it happens here. Should we be regarded as an unsafe nation purely on the basis we're a bit "torturey" (let alone the active participation in torture of terrorist suspects over the last decade). It's rubbish. We torture terrorists they torture terrorists, their law will be changed. We still do it and our law has prevented it for donkeys. Because in a war against terrorists the guys at the front line have a very hard job to do and their foes are ruthless and when you're dealing with people who make the provos look like honourable chaps you can't play the boy scout. ---------- Post added 26-04-2013 at 00:13 ---------- I don't think that's what Andy is saying or implying..I think (ready to be corrected) he's saying in this particular case he doesn't care..he just wants him out. What I'm saying is lets stop treating arab victims of terrorism as irrelevant. Lets end once and for what this sob managed to set up that you can sit in London and hide behind our laws and as long as those you kill only have dark skins it's OK as long as you don't do anything in the UK. Lets send a very clear message that those time are over, there is no refuge for terrorists in the UK. Under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 What is torture? Police giving a suspect a bit of a shoeing would fit the legal definition, it happens here. Should we be regarded as an unsafe nation purely on the basis we're a bit "torturey" (let alone the active participation in torture of terrorist suspects over the last decade). It's rubbish. We torture terrorists they torture terrorists, their law will be changed. We still do it and our law has prevented it for donkeys. Because in a war against terrorists the guys at the front line have a very hard job to do and their foes are ruthless and when you're dealing with people who make the provos look like honourable chaps you can't play the boy scout. Like I said - there is no spin that can make torture okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Like I said - there is no spin that can make torture okay. OK, so you think it's spin for torture. It isn't, stuff that would be legally classed as torture happens here, do you think nobody should be extradited here, regardless of the evidence we have against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 OK, so you think it's spin for torture. It isn't, stuff that would be legally classed as torture happens here, do you think nobody should be extradited here, regardless of the evidence we have against them? I think that nobody should be delivered into the hands of a state that does not recognise the human right to not be tortured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 We are not protecting him from Jordanian justice..that's the point:rolleyes:..we are protecting and upholding a UK justice system highly regarded globally, unless you define and apply justice based on an individual simply because of that individual. He comes under the umbrella of justice equally for all, not justice as it suits. Btw that includes you, me and although I know it hurts, him too. And, as a system we don't use torture. The argument "he should have thought of that before he got involved in terror". Well you could apply the same reasoning to anyone who breaks the law and is subject to the system. So we protect everyone on the planet from their countries justice system or just the ones that manage to run away from justice. Its sounds to me like we are claiming to be superior to Jordan because we have higher moral values, and because we are superior and have these higher moral values we have the right to interfere in their laws and their ways. Its nice to be part of the superia race. ---------- Post added 26-04-2013 at 07:30 ---------- No, I imagine I would be full of fury and grief and incapable of viewing the situation dispassionately as justice demands. To save you some effort, there is no spin that can be put on this to make torture okay. Torture isn't OK but we aren't the superior race and have no right to dictate how other countries operate their justice system, we should respect each country as an equal regardless of how barbaric we think they are. If I broke the law in Jordon I would expect to be tried according to their rules and not our rules, we should not be a safe haven for every that run away from their countries justice. ---------- Post added 26-04-2013 at 07:35 ---------- What is torture? Police giving a suspect a bit of a shoeing would fit the legal definition, it happens here. Should we be regarded as an unsafe nation purely on the basis we're a bit "torturey" (let alone the active participation in torture of terrorist suspects over the last decade). It's rubbish. We torture terrorists they torture terrorists, their law will be changed. We still do it and our law has prevented it for donkeys. Because in a war against terrorists the guys at the front line have a very hard job to do and their foes are ruthless and when you're dealing with people who make the provos look like honourable chaps you can't play the boy scout. Torture can be both mental and physical and I would regard life in prison as mental torture. The thought of being locked up away from my family for the rest of my life is worse than death; I would rather have my finger nails pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSmith Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I think that nobody should be delivered into the hands of a state that does not recognise the human right to not be tortured. i think you should stop trying to be the Nanny! and wagging your finger at others, Jordan want qatada for a trial? we want him out of our country where he is a clear and proved danger to the UK he is also a drain on our public purse and has been for years. we should respect Jordans laws and the extradition request and get him out, torture or no torture i dont really care, in fact he probably deserves a bit of pain......god know him and his ilk have caused enough:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.