andygardener Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I do not see how opposing torture and respecting the rule of law equates to being spineless. It often takes a great deal of courage to do the decent, honourable, principled and civilised thing in the face of more 'basic' and brutal voices. Mike, do you think shooting someone in the face is always wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Halibutt, its clear you are a supporter of this man, but you are seriously out of touch with the way other people think. Do you think that supporting him will bring you more friends? Nope, it wont, and if you read my post you would have seen that my wanten acts of ball removal would come into play should he maim one of MY loved ones. Terrrorists maim and kill the innocent, for no other reason than for pleasure. For you to not comprehend this only shows that unlike me, you can only see one side of the arguement. Alternatively, it could just be the fact that you assumed the "spineless fart" jibe was aimed directly at you....well if the cap fits...... of course he is a supporter just see all his other posts, in fact why doesnt he just come out and say that "qatada is really a very nice man but seriously misunderstood due to his religious beliefs, and we should be soooooo understanding and chant to him there there there sooothing voice!! whilst mopping his terrorist brow:roll: I do not support Qatada and neither does Halibut. As I have said before, I think he is a reprehensible individual and am keen to see him face justice as soon as and wherever possible, provided that it is justice and not simply terrorism in a uniform of state. If you can provide one single quote that refers to support of Qatada rather than opposition to torture then please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 How do you account for the (relative) peace in Northern Ireland then? I think you'll find that was achieved entirely through talks and debate. If we were persuing your primitive (just like the Taliban and Al-Quaeda) ideology of a tooth for a tooth, we'd still be fighting and people would still be dying. Lack of funding and support, http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/how-911-gave-the-ira-an-exit-route-from-war-28654323.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Mike, do you think shooting someone in the face is always wrong? Andy, I can probably guess where you are going with this and ordinarily would be happy to engage in the debate. However, given the last two times I have presented you with credible evidence only to see you dismiss it out of hand and I am not prepared to join you on a path that would lead to that cul-de-sac for a thrid time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Andy, I can probably guess where you are going with this and ordinarily would be happy to engage in the debate. However, given the last two times I have presented you with credible evidence only to see you dismiss it out of hand and I am not prepared to join you on a path that would lead to that cul-de-sac for a thrid time. Not a debate mate. You've created a moral absolute of "torture" which can never be justified when lethal force can be. It's nonsense when you do it, it's nonsense when our government does it. Live in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 SD, you're being a tad harsh there. Halibut and mike et al don't support this guy. They just have a lack of pragmatism when it comes to national security. Two very different things. They support his right to live in the UK and they oppose his extradition to a country in which he committed acts of terror. Looks like support to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 You've created a moral absolute of "torture" which can never be justified when lethal force can be. It's nonsense when you do it, it's nonsense when our government does it. The utilitarian argument that the end justifies the means is equally as flawed. Do you think it's okay to torture a baby to get a father to share information? If not then your moral relativism is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 and all your post's epitomises all that is wrong with the "(bourgeois psuedo-liberal elite bubble "" you live in.).The profound inability to make meaningful distinctions, the deranged propensity to condone violent human rights abusers because 'we're just as bad',if we seek justice, The singular failure of your section of the Left has been its aligning itself with the standard bearers of human rights abuse. Well done for ignoring the fact that I have clearly stated, several times now, that I want Qatada to face justice at the earliest opportunity. Torture is not justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Well done for ignoring the fact that I have clearly stated, several times now, that I want Qatada to face justice at the earliest opportunity. Torture is not justice. Definition Justice The administration of the law. Definition law The system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties: Therefor you oppose justice and support his right remain here and escape justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Definition Justice The administration of the law. Very selective ignoring the other parts of that definition. justice, n. the quality of being fair and reasonable: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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