Parking Permits in Hillsborough.

[Planner1]

Beg to differ on this. Can you define quite low?

 

When I have to use the car for work I join Holme Lane at Wood Road and will have let several cars in in front of me by the time I hit Hillsborough Corner.

I join it before you and when I drive down there at peak hours I will usually let one vehicle out at Hillsborough Place. It's not often that there is anyone to let out before that. Most of the drivers in front and behind me do not let anyone out.

 

Queues on Holme Lane are due to capacity being exceeded at Hillsborough Corner. The queues emanate from there.

[Planner1]

Tram gates might have been introduced 17 years ago; they've been enforced for what? 5 years? Even then the signage was deemed inadequate and had to be changed.

The gates have always been enforced, it was just occasional before the cameras were introduced.

 

No, the signing wasn't deemed to be inadequate at all. As I have said on here several times before. The adjudication that led to the signing changes focussed on a roadmarking that the adjudicator felt that it would be "fairer" to include. There is no requirement in the signing and lining regulations for that roadmarking to be associated with the bus/tram gate signs. The adjudicator confirmed that the signing setup the Council had installed was fully legal. It had been authorised by the Department for Transport, soi it clearly was legal. The adjudicator still wanted the additional roadmarking and, because of limitations in the signing regulations on how many lines and characters can be used on a roadmarking, it meant that some classes of vehicle which had been exempted, could no longer be, which necessesitated a change to the signs as well.

If the tramgates were to encourage public transport use, then its failed if, as you state, there is vastly increasing car use.

The trams and buses which use that route are extremely well used, they carry thousands of passengers a day. The growth in car ownership and use was a national trend and no individual transport system in one city could stop it. Research on the trams has shown that it does attract drivers away from car use, so it does have some effect on traffic levels. Think of it this way, if all the passengers on the packed trams at peak times were using cars. How much worse would it be?

 

 

Today, I got the bus to work. Did you?

No. Takes too long to get to work by bus, I usually drive, but sometimes I use a combination of bus and train. Depends what I'm doing and where I need to be after work.

 

I use the train a fair bit for business travel. I have used the train this week. Sometimes I work from home too, so I do my bit to reduce my car usage and carbon footprint.

[retep]

The tram installation works paid for a lot of improvements to West St. All footways were replaced with much nicer paving and new street furniture was put in, which made it a much more pleasant place and will have contributed to the regeneration that's taken place there. The new tram stops attract people, who shop and use the local businesses.

 

The point being that it's as I said earlier, swings and roundabouts. Some gain, some do not.

 

Who stumped up the cash.

[TheGuy]

I was passing through Hillsborough today, when, on a whim, I thought I'd get my haircut while I was there, I saw a handy parking space but realised I had no change on me for the machine; there was no way I was going to park up, go to withdraw a tenner from an ATM, go to a shop to spend something so that I'd have change, only to find that I'd got a ticket when I got back to my car - so I didn't bother, I just went home.

 

Thanks to the parking charges, Bogards didn't get my custom today.

[DaFoot]

Tram gates might have been introduced 17 years ago; they've been enforced for what? 5 years? Even then the signage was deemed inadequate and had to be changed.

 

....

 

I see this comment a lot re the tram/bus gate. When I moved to Sheffield (8 or 9 years ago I think) the tram gate was confusing. Not because of lack of signage but seeing how the majority of cars seemed to ignore the signage.

 

A sign that has the layout marked with "all through traffic" indicated on it is pretty easy to understand is it not?

[Planner1]

Who stumped up the cash.

 

The Supertram project paid for it.

[retep]

The Supertram project paid for it.

 

Who paid for the supertram project, that seems to be your and other planners problem, it doesn't arrive out of projects, it comes out of taxpayers pockets, and then surprise surprise arrives in some private company's pocket,

 

How much was the supertram sold for, here's a reminder,

 

 

Following a parliamentary act in 1985 authorising the scheme, the system was built by SYPTE at a cost of £240 million,[1] and opened in stages between 1994 and 1995. It was initially operated by South Yorkshire Supertram Ltd (SYSL), a wholly owned subsidiary company of SYPTE. After lower than expected passenger revenue, SYSL was sold to Stagecoach for £1.15 million at the end of 1997. With the sale of SYSL, Stagecoach gained the concession to maintain and operate the Supertram trams until 2024

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertram_(Sheffield)

 

A brilliant bit of planning, were you involved or did you as usual just sit in for someone.

[andyofborg]

Who paid for the supertram project, that seems to be your and other planners problem, it doesn't arrive out of projects, it comes out of taxpayers pockets, and then surprise surprise arrives in some private company's pocket,

 

where else would it end up?

 

every penny the tax payer spends ends up in a private company's pocket.

 

Following a parliamentary act in 1985 authorising the scheme, the system was built by SYPTE at a cost of £240 million,[1] and opened in stages between 1994 and 1995. It was initially operated by South Yorkshire Supertram Ltd (SYSL), a wholly owned subsidiary company of SYPTE. After lower than expected passenger revenue, SYSL was sold to Stagecoach for £1.15 million at the end of 1997. With the sale of SYSL, Stagecoach gained the concession to maintain and operate the Supertram trams until 2024

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertram_(Sheffield)

 

A brilliant bit of planning, were you involved or did you as usual just sit in for someone.

 

not sure what that has to do with planning. it was an operational decision by the sypte management.

 

anyway, much of the money went on the changes to the road network and moving and renewing sewers, gas pipes, electric cables not the trams and the rails and bits.

[retep]

where else would it end up?

 

every penny the tax payer spends ends up in a private company's pocket.

 

 

not sure what that has to do with planning. it was an operational decision by the sypte management.

 

anyway, much of the money went on the changes to the road network and moving and renewing sewers, gas pipes, electric cables not the trams and the rails and bits.

 

Well thats okay then we may as well just give them the money with no return and cut out the middleman.

 

Who planned it then, did it appear out of thin air,

the local road network wouldn't have needed the work but for supertram.

 

And there would be less need for parking virus permits in Hillsborough as the crowbar to get you out of your car and onto privately owned business transport wouldn't be there.

[BoroB]

The gates have always been enforced, it was just occasional before the cameras were introduced.

 

No, the signing wasn't deemed to be inadequate at all. As I have said on here several times before. The adjudication that led to the signing changes focussed on a roadmarking that the adjudicator felt that it would be "fairer" to include. There is no requirement in the signing and lining regulations for that roadmarking to be associated with the bus/tram gate signs. The adjudicator confirmed that the signing setup the Council had installed was fully legal. It had been authorised by the Department for Transport, soi it clearly was legal. The adjudicator still wanted the additional roadmarking and, because of limitations in the signing regulations on how many lines and characters can be used on a roadmarking, it meant that some classes of vehicle which had been exempted, could no longer be, which necessesitated a change to the signs as well.

 

The trams and buses which use that route are extremely well used, they carry thousands of passengers a day. The growth in car ownership and use was a national trend and no individual transport system in one city could stop it. Research on the trams has shown that it does attract drivers away from car use, so it does have some effect on traffic levels. Think of it this way, if all the passengers on the packed trams at peak times were using cars. How much worse would it be?

 

 

No. Takes too long to get to work by bus, I usually drive, but sometimes I use a combination of bus and train. Depends what I'm doing and where I need to be after work.

 

I use the train a fair bit for business travel. I have used the train this week. Sometimes I work from home too, so I do my bit to reduce my car usage and carbon footprint.

 

Tram gates have been enforced by fines for around 5 years, not 17.

 

Sorry Planner1, the adjudicator said change the signs. Do they say that if signs are adequate?

 

You can argue that the signs were adequate until your as blue in the face as a smurf but the adjudicator said change, the council changed the signs.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that someone who dislikes the tramgates are against public transport. I work in Broomhill/Hillsborough so I can use the bus/foot on most occasions. Others such as yourself who work further afield understandably would find public transport unsuitable and inconvenient (but not impossible).

 

I'm against the tramgates and the parking permit scheme because in my opinion they do not solve the problem - to use your term traffic is displaced.

 

Cars wanting to cross the Middlewood Road/ Langsett Road junction have their journey distance trebled, sending them onto roads which were not designed for high volumes of traffic.

 

Roads more suitable such as Middlewood and Langsett are restricted for several hours a day.

 

Likewise the parking permit scheme. Restricting use on one set of roads will lead to problems on others. Some win, some lose, but the council still collect ever increasing fees.