Ms Macbeth Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 So just found a article in the star about parking permits in hillsborough .Area for permits is not being extended but . Extra double yellow lines are planned for Beechwood Road, East View Terrace, Garry Road, Hawthorn Road, Kirkstone Road, Upwood Road, Warner Road and Proctor Place. Why will this help with parking ,it will make matters worse for the residents on these roads . Can anyone fill me in ,anyone know anymore ? I can comment on Garry & Upwood Rds, as I live in that area. Those roads are not heavily parked except on match days, so there is usually no need to park right on the junctions, but people still do. Double yellows on the corners will improve visibility for drivers. Star report is here: http://www.thestar.co.uk/community/green-scene/sheffield-yellow-line-changes-1-5399226 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I can comment on Garry & Upwood Rds, as I live in that area. Those roads are not heavily parked except on match days, so there is usually no need to park right on the junctions, but people still do. Double yellows on the corners will improve visibility for drivers. Star report is here: http://www.thestar.co.uk/community/green-scene/sheffield-yellow-line-changes-1-5399226 Does this "extra yellow lines" on Warner, Garry and Upwood roads just mean the corners or the whole length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 So just found a article in the star about parking permits in hillsborough .Area for permits is not being extended but . Extra double yellow lines are planned for Beechwood Road, East View Terrace, Garry Road, Hawthorn Road, Kirkstone Road, Upwood Road, Warner Road and Proctor Place. Why will this help with parking ,it will make matters worse for the residents on these roads . Can anyone fill me in ,anyone know anymore ? Agree, people outside the scheme are suffering because of the scheme and the restrictions it imposes: People in surrounding streets were asked whether they had parking problems –to which 66 per cent replied ‘yes’ – but 52.4 per cent said they did not want the zone extending, compared with 38.4 per cent in favour of permits. So what do the council do? Restrict parking further by putting double yellow lines in. Great move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.N Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I think what riles me the most about these schemes and being a motorist in general is the lack of what I see as a "fair cop". If I am in town, buy a parking a ticket, and don't get back in time, I expect to get a ticket. It's a bonus if I don't, but if I do, it's a fair cop. With these sort of schemes, an awful lot of ignorance is peddled around. People see that it's difficult / impossible to park outside of their house, or a short distance away. They make the assumption* that resident permit parking will solve their problem, and they lobby the council. I suspect few or none of them speak to people that live in areas where there is already permit parking; and critically, all assume that they will then get to park outside their house or a short distance away. The council will indeed give the people what they want. It helps get them re-elected if they give people what they want. If what the people want will also give the council some free money then so much the better. For some reason (incompetence? malice? genuine naivety), the council consults, but presents only one side of the argument; it doesn't tell people all of the details up front, but rather trickles them out at a public meeting which a lot of the local populace won't be able to make. But then the detail comes along. It turns out that a permit isn't a guarantee to park outside of your house or a short distance away. It turns out that whilst you could park outside of you house or a short distance away 2 years ago, you now can't because the next road over is permit controlled, your street isn't and everyone is now parking outside your house. It turns out that the prices of the permits can increase at a rate many times inflation. And in the end, the only real change is that you're ending up paying for the same situation that you had before the permits came along. All of this violates the "fair cop" principle. I am riled because I don't think the council was fair in how it described the scheme, and how it did relatively little to pro-actively inform people of the detail. The pro-active parts were the leaflets "promoting" the consultation. People got these delivered. They were misleading and unfair. Only at the public meeting, and in the plans at the drop in center (which are both reactive - requiring people to go out of their way to find them) did the details come out, and then, ONLY because people happened to ask the right questions. Had the initial leaflet been honest and told people the truth about a permit not meaning the right to park outside their house or a short distance away; had talked about displacement from other areas; had mentioned the prices of permits would in all likelihood rise at rate above inflation. If the review had an option for the revication of the scheme, rather than seeking to push for it's extension ... I still wouldn't have voted for it, but at least I'd feel that those that did would have done so from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance*. In short, it would have been a "fair cop". *All of my neighbours voted for the scheme because they all thought it meant that they could part outside of their house or a short distance away. They were shocked when they found out that the scheme did not guarantee this outcome. They learned the details of these scheme from someone that used to live in the Eccesall road area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It does seem odd that the individual permit areas can be very small. Some of the ones around Sharrow Lane and just off Ecclesall Rd seem to be particularly small. I just don’t see the point of making them so small, and not allowing holders in adjacent permit areas to use them. These residents are all in the same boat, and should be allowed to use each others areas. Ideally they would like to park in “their own” area, ie close to their house or business, but could probably cope with parking in the next area if they had to. The purpose of the residents parking is to stop outsiders from entering the area, parking for long periods as part of an ad hoc park and ride, or even parking for work at the expense of locals. This does not apply to those in adjacent resident permit areas, who are acting as residents, albeit one from a few streets away. They would only park in an adjacent area because there was nowhere available in their own. They would not be trying to cheat anyone else out of a parking space. They are part of those who the system should be trying to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It does seem odd that the individual permit areas can be very small. Some of the ones around Sharrow Lane and just off Ecclesall Rd seem to be particularly small. I just don’t see the point of making them so small, and not allowing holders in adjacent permit areas to use them. These residents are all in the same boat, and should be allowed to use each others areas. Ideally they would like to park in “their own” area, ie close to their house or business, but could probably cope with parking in the next area if they had to. They were originally part of the very large Sharrow Vale scheme. When the Lib-Dems came in, they decided to split it up into the smaller parts you see today. Largely because they felt that different areas had different issues. Some of the zones do have an evening parking problem, some don't. ---------- Post added 12-02-2013 at 12:46 ---------- For some reason (incompetence? malice? genuine naivety), the council consults, but presents only one side of the argument; it doesn't tell people all of the details up front, but rather trickles them out at a public meeting which a lot of the local populace won't be able to make. As you have seen with this and other leaflet drops. response rates are not great, even with a fairly brief leaflet. Would you expect it to be better by delivering a document many times larger that the current style of leaflet? Because that is what would be needed to get across every scrap of information and answer every question that might be asked. Would more or less people read such a document do you think? But then the detail comes along. It turns out that a permit isn't a guarantee to park outside of your house or a short distance away. It turns out that whilst you could park outside of you house or a short distance away 2 years ago, you now can't because the next road over is permit controlled, your street isn't and everyone is now parking outside your house. These points are mentioned in the consultation exercise. I always made them very plain from the start in the schmes I did It turns out that the prices of the permits can increase at a rate many times inflation. And in the end, the only real change is that you're ending up paying for the same situation that you had before the permits came along. It's been unfortunate for the people in the Hillsborough scheme. The price of a first resident permit started at £35 and went up to £36 several years later. It was like that for for several years before the Lib-Dems came in and dropped it to £10, which was when discussions on the Hillsborough scheme started. Now it's going back up to the pre-Lib-Dem price of £36. For the other zones, that's just taking it back to the old price, not an overall increase as such. Had the initial leaflet been honest and told people the truth about a permit not meaning the right to park outside their house or a short distance away; had talked about displacement from other areas; had mentioned the prices of permits would in all likelihood rise at rate above inflation. As mentioned earlier, you can't get every scrap of info or every FAQ on a modest sized leaflet. At the time the leaflets came out, no one knew what would happen with permit prices. The decision on going back to the pre-LibDem prices was very recent. If the review had an option for the revication of the scheme, rather than seeking to push for it's extension ... I still wouldn't have voted for it, but at least I'd feel that those that did would have done so from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance*. In short, it would have been a "fair cop". People had the opportunity to ask for whatever they wanted on the review consultation. The truth is that they didn't want the scheme revoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 At the time the leaflets came out, no one knew what would happen with permit prices. I think we had a pretty good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 People had the opportunity to ask for whatever they wanted on the review consultation. The truth is that they didn't want the scheme revoked. The truth is that the scheme has had no overall effect on the Hillsborough area: Responses from people in the area of the zone, covering streets around Hillsborough Corner and Bradfield Road, showed 60.3 per cent felt the ‘overall parking situation’ on their road had improved after the parking permit zone was introduced. People in surrounding streets were asked whether they had parking problems – to which 66 per cent replied ‘yes’ – but 52.4 per cent said they did not want the zone extending, compared with 38.4 per cent in favour of permits. A higher percentage of people have parking problems that have benefitted thanks to the councils money making scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It's been unfortunate for the people in the Hillsborough scheme. The price of a first resident permit started at £35 and went up to £36 several years later. It was like that for for several years before the Lib-Dems came in and dropped it to £10, which was when discussions on the Hillsborough scheme started. Now it's going back up to the pre-Lib-Dem price of £36. For the other zones, that's just taking it back to the old price, not an overall increase as such. No matter how you try to dress it up it's a massive price hike.......and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevo Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The truth is that the scheme has had no overall effect on the Hillsborough area: Responses from people in the area of the zone, covering streets around Hillsborough Corner and Bradfield Road, showed 60.3 per cent felt the ‘overall parking situation’ on their road had improved after the parking permit zone was introduced. People in surrounding streets were asked whether they had parking problems – to which 66 per cent replied ‘yes’ – but 52.4 per cent said they did not want the zone extending, compared with 38.4 per cent in favour of permits. A higher percentage of people have parking problems that have benefitted thanks to the councils money making scheme. All it has done is push the problem further afield to other people's doorstep it was forced to happen not rocket science is it Planner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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