andygardener Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I find this statement difficult to believe. 179 replies from properties within the scheme, of which only 71 (39.7%) thought that parking had improved within the area. 108 disagreed that it had improved. Clear majority for no improvement there. 250 replies from properties outside of the scheme, of which 165 (66%) thought that there was still a problem. So 273 said no improvement/still a problem, 156 said improvement/parking not a problem. The truth is the council have not improved the parking situation in the area, the majority of respondents stated this, and the council had no intention of revoking the scheme. It's hardly fair to bring facts into it. Planner1 and SCC in general prefer the looking glass approach of facts - "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 When they implemented the scheme, the Council told local people they would review it after a year in operation and ask them how they were finding it. Do you think it's a waste of money asking people what they think? Do you think keeping your promises is a waste of money? PS haven't you heard the are already spending £2bn on fixing the roads? Do you think its worth acting on what people say when the council go to the trouble of asking them their opinion? Promises? Not worth the paper there written on from the council. Haven't you heard that there are pot holes all over Sheffield now and have been for years? Shane MacGowan's teeth are in a better state than alot of our roads. ---------- Post added 12-02-2013 at 23:42 ---------- It's hardly fair to bring facts into it. Planner1 and SCC in general prefer the looking glass approach of facts - "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." Sorry for unsporting conduct. Apparently the Hillsborough Permit Parking Review is in the fiction section at W H Smiths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I find this statement difficult to believe. Why? There was space on the response form for comments, so people could say what they wanted. The report says that only a small number of people asked for the scheme to be revoked. So, it's not as unpopular as you like to make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Why? There was space on the response form for comments, so people could say what they wanted. The report says that only a small number of people asked for the scheme to be revoked. So, it's not as unpopular as you like to make out. Perfect example. "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 179 replies from properties within the scheme, of which only 71 (39.7%) thought that parking had improved within the area. But 60% thought it had improved on their street 108 disagreed that it had improved. Clear majority for no improvement there. No they didn't. 55 of the ones you are counting didn't know and 7 didn't answer. and the council had no intention of revoking the scheme. And the people didn't ask them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Maybe if they'd asked the direct question Would you like to see the scheme scrapped altogether? there might have been a different answer. But no, the direct question is always Would you like to see the scheme expanded?, implying that the only two options are expanding it or leaving it as it is. If that isn't skewing the answer I don't know what is. So next time we have one of these 'consultations', how about putting on it the direct question Would you like to see the scheme scrapped altogether?. Go on council, I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 But 60% thought it had improved on their street No they didn't. 55 of the ones you are counting didn't know and 7 didn't answer. And the people didn't ask them to. So is it about improving parking on particular streets or in the area as a whole? The question put to those within the sceme was: Bearing in mind the parking situation in the area before the scheme was introduced; do you think the parking situation has improved in the overall area? A pitiful 39.7% agreed with this. You seem to be saying that those who said they didn't know support the scheme. Is it not the case that they can't see any difference from before or after? Hardly an endorsement for a scheme that was supposed to improve things. ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 06:58 ---------- Why? There was space on the response form for comments, so people could say what they wanted. The report says that only a small number of people asked for the scheme to be revoked. So, it's not as unpopular as you like to make out. And who put the report together? Why the very people who implemented the scheme. As i've said earlier in the thread, why no independent review? There's not even majority support from with the scheme and definitely not from outside the scheme. Its there in the report in black and white if the rose tinted glasses are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So is it about improving parking on particular streets or in the area as a whole? Both I would say. The question put to those within the sceme was: Bearing in mind the parking situation in the area before the scheme was introduced; do you think the parking situation has improved in the overall area? A pitiful 39.7% agreed with this. You seem to be saying that those who said they didn't know support the scheme. Is it not the case that they can't see any difference from before or after? Hardly an endorsement for a scheme that was supposed to improve things. You originally said "108 disagreed that it had improved" which was clearly not true. If you say you don't know, or don't express a view you are not disagreeing. The fact is that the highest number of people who expressed a view said that it had improved. And who put the report together? Why the very people who implemented the scheme. As I've said earlier in the thread, why no independent review? There's not even majority support from with the scheme and definitely not from outside the scheme. Its there in the report in black and white if the rose tinted glasses are removed. No-one ever promised an independent review. The officers who implemented the scheme are best placed to comment on the overall process an how local views have changed or not. The officers own views do not come into it, they report on the facts and produce recommendations as required by the decision makers. Basically you have been pushing an anti-scheme view all along. The consultation responses do not reflect your view and no matter how much you try to twist them around, that fact remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyno Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 We need the actual data to help people understand this discussion: Question: - Bearing in mind the parking situation in the area before the scheme was introduced; do you think the overall parking situation has improved on your road? 60.3% agreed. Question: - Bearing in mind the parking situation in the area before the scheme was introduced; do you think the parking situation has improved in the overall area? 39.7% agreed (25.7 disagreed, 30.7 didn't know). Question: <snip>do you think there is a suitable balance of parking restrictions on your street? 50.3% agreed. Question: <snip> do you think there is a suitable balance of parking restrictions in the overall area? 37.4% agreed (22.9 disagree, 35.2 don't know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Both I would say. You originally said "108 disagreed that it had improved" which was clearly not true. If you say you don't know, or don't express a view you are not disagreeing. The fact is that the highest number of people who expressed a view said that it had improved. No-one ever promised an independent review. The officers who implemented the scheme are best placed to comment on the overall process an how local views have changed or not. The officers own views do not come into it, they report on the facts and produce recommendations as required by the decision makers. Basically you have been pushing an anti-scheme view all along. The consultation responses do not reflect your view and no matter how much you try to twist them around, that fact remains. So if it is about improving parking on particular streets and the area as a whole why two different sets of questions for those in the scheme and those outside of it? The same questions should be put to both parties. I know that an independent review was never promised and know why it was never promised. 39.7% of those within the scheme agree that parking has improved - fact. Please explain why you believe the consultation responses do not reflect my view of being anti-scheme as obviously we interpret tha data differently. I am anti-scheme and have been since it was first conceived. The reasons are that unlike you I live and work in Hillsborough and see on a daily basis that it does not solve the parking problem. I'm not a pen-pusher sat behind a desk with a pre-conceived decision as to what the result of a consultation or review are going to be. The review document put forward was biased and avoided the one question that would have put this to argument to bed: The Hillsborough Parking Scheme has been in place for 12 months now. Based on how it has operated, should the scheme be revoked? Yes/No. Instead £45,000 has been spent pussy-footing around the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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