Pregnant Man Gives Birth

[sgtkate]

I personally use the scientific means to determine the sex of our species. Call it the Time Team method. If a group of hair archeologists dug up this persons remains in a distant future, what sex would they deduce from the bones?

 

Would the boffins say, this is a "Gender-Neutral, Metro-Sexual who prefered the use of neutral pronouns when describing their sex? Or would it be, genetic tests have told us this was a "Male".

 

To be honest Berberis in the future I wouldn't be surprised if we have considerably more than 2 recognised sexes (i.e physical gender not self-defined ones).

 

Some further reading here: https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

 

Clearly this isn't accepted by all biologists at the moment but more and more do seem to be agreeing that humans do not neatly fit in to male and female at a physical level let alone a mental one. (Sex being physical and gender being mental)

[Berberis]

To be honest Berberis in the future I wouldn't be surprised if we have considerably more than 2 recognised sexes (i.e physical gender not self-defined ones).

 

Some further reading here: https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

 

Clearly this isn't accepted by all biologists at the moment but more and more do seem to be agreeing that humans do not neatly fit in to male and female at a physical level let alone a mental one. (Sex being physical and gender being mental)

 

How would they know that the body they are digging up identified with X or Y? Call me old school but I'm with the scientific measure of the sex of our species.

[sgtkate]

How would they know that the body they are digging up identified with X or Y? Call me old school but I'm with the scientific measure of the sex of our species.

 

Did you read that article? That is the scientific way! There are 6 different chromosomes sets which is absolutely known by biologists.

 

X

Y

XX

XY

XXY

XYY

 

all exist. Clearly 2 of those are male and female. The others? Well, a bit male, a bit female? So yes if you dug up a body and tested the DNA you would be able to tell if they were actually an XXY as opposed to XY or XX. I find it very interesting that even though this has been known for some time it's still not socially accepted. I presume because 99% or so of people do fit in the 'male/female' definitions that the 1% gets overlooked, especially as DNA testing isn't routinely done in this country so you need a specific reason to ever find out about it.

 

However, to actually answer the OP and not go off on another tangent I really can't get my head around why it matters what the person calls themselves, it's just a word that means whatever you want it to mean once you get away from the scientific side of it. The only reason why being a gay parent is still regarded as something 'wrong' is because some people in society think it is regardless of evidence to the contrary and this man is another example of the same thinking. Why would this person be a bad parent simply because they had a sex change? Why would his child grow up any different to any other child? Why would it be hard explaining to his child that he was born into a woman's body but knew in his head he was a man so decided to be happy and change sex? Evidence shows that parents who had IVF or adopted have 'better' children than those who conceive naturally. Better school results, less mental health problems, less teenage pregnancy rates etc, nearly any measure you can think of. So perhaps rather than focussing on the negatives of this type of parent you should consider that the parents who have had to make immense sacrifices to have a child are likely to be more invested in their own childrens upbringing and this man is likely no different.

 

Many more links but heres one: http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-05-25-ivf-babies-do-not-have-lower-cognitive-skills-naturally-conceived-children

 

Could be argued that IVF is more common in parents of high socio-economic status so might skew the results I guess.

Edited July 10, 2017 by sgtkate

[Berberis]

Did you read that article? That is the scientific way! There are 6 different chromosomes sets which is absolutely known by biologists.

 

X

Y

XX

XY

XXY

XYY

 

 

Correct but XXY and XYY exist but they are Chromosome abnormalities and not the norm. Neither does an XYY or XXY abnormality make the person in any way more or less likely to identify with a different sex to that of what they are.

 

Just to point out, you have Y listed as a sex which is incorrect. You could not survive with just a single Y chromosome (without an X).

 

The 6 recognised are X, XX, XXY, XY, XYY, XXXY, but XXY, XYY and XXXY are all abnormalities caused by genetic defects and not part of the standard meiosis based gamete fertilisation, or sexually reproduced offspring.

 

Are all the people who "identify" with different sex to that of their genes have one of these Chromosome abnormalities? The women who this thread is about certainly appears not to and it is not reported that she does. Therefore given the information we have, this is a woman.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Berberis

[sgtkate]

Correct but XXY and XYY exist but they are Chromosome abnormalities and not the norm. Neither does an XYY or XXY abnormality make the person in any way more or less likely to identify with a different sex to that of what they are.

 

Just to point out, you have Y listed as a sex which is incorrect. You could not survive with just a single Y chromosome (without an X).

 

The 6 recognised are X, XX, XXY, XY, XYY, XXXY, but XXY, XYY and XXXY are all abnormalities caused by genetic defects and not part of the standard meiosis based gamete fertilisation, or sexually reproduced offspring.

 

Are all the people who "identify" with different sex to that of their genes have one of these Chromosome abnormalities? The women who this thread is about certainly appears not to and it is not reported that she does. Therefore given the information we have, this is a woman.

 

Oh I'm not disputing that at all. Just giving some more info around the subject as to why it's not always that simple. I agree on the info we have their sex is female and gender is male. I don't think your sex changes as you rightly say that's biological, but, perhaps we should focus more on gender and less on sex?

 

And thank you for the correction about 'Y', you are indeed correct.

[Jomie]

sgtkate: I really can't get my head around why it matters what the person calls themselves, it's just a word that means whatever you want it to mean once you get away from the scientific side of it.

Folk can call themselves what they like but they, and organizations such as the media should not insult the intelligence of the public. Headlines such as this are plainly ridiculous. This person is female and had enough maternal feelings to go ahead with a pregnancy. She now wants to continue with treatment to make her look like a man but she is still very young and if she enjoys being a mother, she could come to regret transitioning when she cannot have a sibling for the child.

I agree with Berberis in his opinion about digging up the bones. People can change their perceived gender but they will always be of the biological sex they were assigned at birth. Some transgendered people become quite distressed when, after treatment they realise this fact.

[ENG601PM]

My friend is trans and he always says that you have sex but you choose gender.

[jaffa1]

There's no such thing as a pregnant male, let's be realistic here.