geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Ahem! To fit in with the 1916 marriage that HughW found, he is unlikely to be any younger than that. Maybe Nellie and Harry weren't brother and sister, then. I suppose the marriage certificate for the aforementioned HArry Sanders and rose Judd, would give the father's name and address, but I'm not sure that will help tracing people a couple of generations later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuppie Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi geocol. This looks promising 1901 census 79 Canada Street. Joseph M SANDERS aged 43 Mary (wife) aged 40 Willie (son) aged 15 Maurice (son) aged 13 Elsie (daughter) aged 10 Nellie (daughter) aged 8 Harry (son) aged 5 Arthur (son) aged 2 Joseph (son) aged 4m Given that Nellie SANDERS has 4 brothers there should be some of Leonards cousins still around. 1954 Kellys lists Morris M SANDERS at 61 Canada St, next door to Leonard and Nellie there is a strong possibility that this is the brother of Nellie listed in the 1901 census. Tuppie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi geocol. This looks promising 1901 census 79 Canada Street. Joseph M SANDERS aged 43 Mary (wife) aged 40 Willie (son) aged 15 Maurice (son) aged 13 Elsie (daughter) aged 10 Nellie (daughter) aged 8 Harry (son) aged 5 Arthur (son) aged 2 Joseph (son) aged 4m Given that Nellie SANDERS has 4 brothers there should be some of Leonards cousins still around. 1954 Kellys lists Morris M SANDERS at 61 Canada St, next door to Leonard and Nellie there is a strong possibility that this is the brother of Nellie listed in the 1901 census. Tuppie Brilliant Tuppie. I remember Maurice now you mention it, and hadn't realised they were related either. The name "their Elsie" now sounds familiar as well ! Sadly my father died six years ago, and can't add information, but hopefully there are enough of them to have produced offspring, who might now recognise the link if a request is made. Canada Street was cleared and demolished in 1975. Good luck, I hope someone comes forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick107b Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi All just read through all of your replies and thanks to everyone (except Plain talker) as Duffems said this is a serious thread and to be quite blunt not a place to make light of. I see the highjacking of threads all the time even on the most inappropriate subjects. in the words of walt Disney "if you have nothing sensible to say, then say nothing at all". From the number of posts you has made you have been a major contributer to this forum and could help instead of making jokes. I am just glad that everyone has been so kind as to supply me with some great info for my research. So far of the British crew members I know very little. Even my wifes Grt Uncle James Wright is a mystery to me. I am still trying to track down a photo of him. He only had an adopted son who lost contact with all of his new family after the death of James so I have another quest looking for him. James was the father of the crew at the age of 30 he was the oldest member. He had been an ARP along with his wife here in Hull but from what I have been told was ridiculed or should i say constantly questioned why he was not in uniform like so many others. So he joined up. it seems that all the insinuations got the better of him. It is stories like this that were so prevalent during WW1. a must is his service records, they will only show his enlistment to death, but as is always the case here in good old Britain it costs around £30. I have just recieved from the Canadian Archives almost all of Millers service papers for the princely sum of £0. The aircraft has never been found and after the war special search teams were set up to locate missing men and planes, in this case nothing. I have contacted the CWGC as they hold original burial places of all men before they were moved into the larger war cemeteries. but because of the FofI Act & DP Act they cannot give out the info i need of an unknown burial. I stupidly thought these were exactly the ones they would give out so as to clear up a case. It is though logical in this case as only 4 graves exist and LK635 had a crew of 7, so presumably they would not want to get the hopes of families up if they informed them that their man could be identified. but this is very frustrating when without the plane we cannot be sure this is its crew. The Canadians are a different story, I am in contact with the brother of the pilot and have contacted a sister-in-law of Miller but Dickson still evades me. As you all may have noticed with the number of forums i have posted this thread on I am concentrating on Cotton but hope to move on to the rest of the crew once i have colated what i have got so far but it is a long job. I am getting desparate for contact with relatives, as i have previously stated it has been too long since someone took an interest in the loss of these young men (which is what i hope to redress) and we also need to get crew photos for an article in the German papers before any more potential witnesses die off. I seem to have gone into overdrive, sorry. Many Many thanks again to everyone . Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 ....The aircraft has never been found and after the war special search teams were set up to locate missing men and planes, in this case nothing. Sadly, looking at this realistically, If the report that the plane went down in the target area was true, and if on the bombing run with the bomb load primed, then I'm afraid (and this may be the reason) there may not have been much left to find. The book "RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol 4, 1943" by WR Chorley, details that there was one other Halifax (from 78 squadron) shot down by flak in the target area that night, and that crew was all accounted for (although a Stirling damaged that way somehow got home with one engine on fire afterwards). If the location of that crash was identified locally, and other reports from the citizens of Hannover of a Halifax being shot down locally, will presumably be the one we are interested in. One other thing that will cloud matters now, is that there were four raids in close succession on Hannover. It may be difficult now to identify and isolate what happened on which night, but there is an advantage that it was the first of the four raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I would gladly pay the £30 for Leonard Cotton's service papers, and go to Kew if necessary to see the flying log books of any of the crew. But as a non-relative, I'm not sure where I stand in being able to obtain papers at this period of time, when so many other participants or their immediate relatives are still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick107b Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi Geocol You are quite right about service records it is usually NofK who has access to them but i am not sure if legitamate researchers can get access? James' records are also on the to do list. but i am trying to concentrate on locating the relatives of the crew, the records are not going far but the families are dying out. the raid on Hanover shows that 26 bombers failed to return that night. all of the crews except LK635 have been accounted for in one cemetery or another. from what i can gather the flight path was SE of hanover to NW. Over 50 flak positions were stationed SE as well as numerous searchlights. Nightfighters were employed in high numbers but not always to shoot down a/c. they used a tracer that hung in the air and as the searchlights saw these immediately homed in on it, thus picking up the bomber. it was used with great effect and resulted in a heavy loss for the allies. I will pm you tomorrow when i have more time, my beds calling. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 .......1954 Kellys lists Morris M SANDERS at 61 Canada St, next door to Leonard and Nellie there is a strong possibility that this is the brother of Nellie listed in the 1901 census. Tuppie Tuppie, I've been thinking about this. Does the 1954 Kellys list Harry Sanders, at an addressat the Burngreave Rec. end of Bressingham Road, Clun Road, or Ditchenham Road? If so, it may be better initially asking for people who knew Harry or his decendents from that period, as well as those remaining in Canada Street from the generation before. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geocol Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 ...., my beds calling. Nick Me too, but I've seen my whole childhood go past in the last 24 hours since I saw your post about Leonard. It was only inadvertently I looked on here last night, I hadn't done for a couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuppie Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 geocol. I have checked all the streets you have listed but I can't find Harry listed. Tuppie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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