The Global Warming Megathread

[Guest]

It is a fair point. I think however, the plan is to sell all the natural resources at steep prices to these nations

 

where is the biggest market to attract new smokers?

 

China.

 

these western corporations who promote dubious products target these kind of countries.

 

we will no doubt exploit fully these developping nations.

[miniminch]

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE THAT ON YOUR CONSCIENCE WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY TO CHARITIES?!?!

yeah **** em!

[igm1]

Originally posted by robbie

fully these developping nations.

 

Well said.

 

It'll just be a repeat of when we officially colonised them.

[Zenmaster]

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu

OK, I just had a scary thought.

 

If all the aid movements succeed, and we bring a large proportion of the "third world" out (or more out) of poverty than they are, it would be crazy to expect them not to have massive industrial revolutions, pouring many many many pollutants into our already fragile ecosystem.

It is common knowledge that China is one of the major pollutants of the world due to its belated technological revolutions, and lax laws etc.

 

Therefore these nations would become a breeding ground for dodgy industry, and would only help the warming of our earth spiral out of control, killing (possibly) thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions

 

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE THAT ON YOUR CONSCIENCE WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY TO CHARITIES?!?!

 

discuss.

 

This is really a long long long way off. And I don't actually see it as a big problem. In the case of China, I wouldn't call it a third world country. But a developing country. There is a big difference.

 

I'm sorry but I don't like your last statement about having that on your conscience when you give to charity. Most charities that aid third world countries are saving lives and creating livelihoods. Thats a long way off from a country becoming an industrialised nation.

 

Charities in the third world to my knowledge focus on things like clean water, creating sustainable projects to provide a livelihood (largely agricultural in origin) and preventing disease, improving education etc.

Charities that work in the third world deal with survival and severe poverty, these nations are not suddenly going to turn into industrial giants, due to giving to charity.

 

When third world countries eventually develop they may not necessarily take the industrial root. Many third world countries have very rich natural resources that will become priceless in many years to come and the tide may turn.

 

Besides just because a country becomes industrialised does not necessarily mean they will be polluting. As I have seen in some developing countries they employ the latest modern clean technology, often less polluting than in so called first world countries.

[PopT]

A Chinese friend of mine recently visited an industrial area outside Shanghai which was set up by European and Chinese companies.

 

She noticed there wasn't anyone amongst the Chinese workers wearing spectacles.

 

The Chinese guide told her, "The company does not employ 'Flawed people' and if anyone become 'flawed' during their employment, the company released them, you must understand there are thousands of people out there waiting to fill these jobs".

 

We in the West complain about human rights of the individual such as Fatism, Ageism and handicaps but I'm afraid that some of Western companies are exploiting the developing countries by going along with their low standards in human rights by ignoring them.

 

I wonder if this is the definition of a 'Developing Country' or is it 'The Things To Come'.

 

 

Bad Days!

[muddycoffee]

It's also a plain fact that some third world nations are kept in poverty by their selfish rulers while their country sits on a fortune of natural resources. This situation is forever perpetuated by western governments who continue to sell them arms. And thus these contries are forever in a state of war or civil war, while the majority of their populations starve.

 

If they had a generation of rulers who had the vision to see a decade into the future and could change this and start making good use of the minerals which could be mined or at least get some decent roads built, then the whole of their country would benefit.

 

While charity stops a handful of people starving and provides a few lucky people with fresh water, schooling and basic immunisation, the only way to combat poverty is to create decent and fair government. So that an economy can emerge and bring the country into a modern age where commerce with the rest of the world can generate weath for the citizens, and educate them so they can help themselves.

[fox20thc]

We had a woman (very smiley woman) come into work on friday and sit at our desks. She had a book full of charities and was trying to get us to subscribe there and then on the spot and have it deducted from our wages

 

I explained that if I choose to give to charities I will do it directly and not have it deducted from my salary.

 

If every charity that had approached me in the last year took the cash directly from my salary/bank I probably would need to start my own charity to pay the rent!

[JoeP]

I recently re-read 'Small is Beautiful' as part of some research I'm doing for a project I want to set up soemtime. It's not dated brilliantly well, but teh underlying ideas of appropriate technology for the job in hand is probably even more valid today.

 

There's an interesting story in there about how western 'aid' goes terminally pear shaped if we don't take care. A country grows cotton. So, why not build a factory to take the cotton, turn it in to thread, make clothes. Creates a local economy, jobs, whatever.

 

So, the country gets in equipment for the factory - costs oodles, all money flowing out of the country. Experts come in to help - you've guessed it - educated and supplied from outside the area. Then comes the real pisser....the local cotton is of the wrong sort (fibres too short, I think) to be actually USED in all this kit....so......

 

They import cotton. Then use that to create clothes which are then exported, again at great cost. The result is that the amount of money made by this factory is too low to keep it open and it shuts down. People have come in to the area where the factory was built to work there, and they now have no work, and are a load on the local economy - slums, etc. result. The countries who gave the aid see the money's gone in, and they're happy. The people who flogged the machinery - they're happy - they get paid. It's great for everyone except the poor buggers at the bottom.

 

Whilst governmental change is great, in many places it's not going to happen. The best thing we can do is to help PEOPLE in these developing areas work out their own problems from the bottom up. Help them by providing knowledge and technqiues that work WITH their local needs and resources, rather than against them. You can't stick western approaches to problem solving and industrial development in to these situations.

 

And it's not just overseas - look at 'economic development' in depressed areas of the UK. But that's another topic....

 

Appropriate technology, bottom up developments, small seed money direct to the point of need, utilising local resources and people, with knowledge of what's worked elsewhere, and with minimum intervention from the 'big noises'. That's what I believe is required - the project I'm currently working up is to do with applying this approach both overseas and in the UK.

 

Joe

[JoeP]

Originally posted by PopT

A Chinese friend of mine recently visited an industrial area outside Shanghai which was set up by European and Chinese companies.

 

She noticed there wasn't anyone amongst the Chinese workers wearing spectacles.

 

The Chinese guide told her, "The company does not employ 'Flawed people' and if anyone become 'flawed' during their employment, the company released them, you must understand there are thousands of people out there waiting to fill these jobs".

 

We in the West complain about human rights of the individual such as Fatism, Ageism and handicaps but I'm afraid that some of Western companies are exploiting the developing countries by going along with their low standards in human rights by ignoring them.

 

I wonder if this is the definition of a 'Developing Country' or is it 'The Things To Come'.

 

 

Bad Days!

 

I assume you've come across 'No Logo' by Naomi Klein?

 

Next time you see a pair of designer trainers, just remember how they're made!

 

Even our computers feature chips and components that may have been manufactured in countries by Western companies using manufacturing techniques that they'd have difficulties getting away with in the UK, US or EC.

 

Joe

[user10239]

interestingly just about all computer components come out of singapore now. the three major RAM factories are based there, and if they were so inclined they could hold the technological world to ransom.

 

But my original point about industrial revolutions seems to have been somewhat overlooked?