The Global Warming Megathread

[JoeP]

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu

interestingly just about all computer components come out of singapore now. the three major RAM factories are based there, and if they were so inclined they could hold the technological world to ransom.

 

But my original point about industrial revolutions seems to have been somewhat overlooked?

 

If we can encourage developing nations to take their own path to development, that suits their situation, and not rely on following the western path, then it's posisble that we might be able to avoid the problems.

 

For example - China - if they need to use coal for energy then assist them with more efficient coal burning technology and energy saving technologies.

 

If a country in sub-saharan africa needs to develop energy for communities, help them develop solar based projects.

 

You can't hold back development - China, for example, will do what ever it needs to do to become an economic powerhouse. What we have to do is work to reduce the impact.

 

Joe

[Cliff Clavin]

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu

OK, I just had a scary thought.

 

If all the aid movements succeed, and we bring a large proportion of the "third world" out (or more out) of poverty than they are, it would be crazy to expect them not to have massive industrial revolutions, pouring many many many pollutants into our already fragile ecosystem.

It is common knowledge that China is one of the major pollutants of the world due to its belated technological revolutions, and lax laws etc.

 

Therefore these nations would become a breeding ground for dodgy industry, and would only help the warming of our earth spiral out of control, killing (possibly) thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions

 

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE THAT ON YOUR CONSCIENCE WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY TO CHARITIES?!?!

 

discuss.

 

I found this thread to be extremely interesting.

 

As bad as it sounds, we can't afford anymore Countries joining the industrial revolution. The age of Oil is coming to its end as it is. Then the Global Warming issue as you say, will escalate. The only charitable thing to do for any nation now, is to both powerdown and allow the population to naturally decrease.

 

Incidently my personal Charity work is, I try not to buy any Chinese produced products. I try to do this with other products made were peoples working rights are abbused. People power is the best way to solve a problem, if we stopped buying their products, let them know why, then they'd soon change their policies.

 

You don't just have to give money to do the charitable thing remember alot of people make themselves comfortable lives out of charities, whilst some really do care. Some are in it for the money:rant: .

[Zenmaster]

The West has had its industrial revolution, so why can't other areas of the world have their revolutions too!

 

Besides by the time more countries become industrialised there will be cleaner forms of technology and power sources. So it doesn't necessarily mean more pollution.

 

Hydro-electric power, solar power, wind power are all alternatives that may well be relied on in the future, as well as far more efficient fuel use. By the time many countries start to industrialise the fuel efficiency will be many times that of when the West industrialised in the nineteenth century. And this is always improving.

 

But why does progress only have to be in the industrial form. Many third world countries have a wealth of agricultural and mineral resources that are not fully exploited. All that is required is the foundations to build these into working providers of GNP.

 

Many third world countries such as those in sub-saharan Africa rely on an agricultural economy. But they remain poor due to unfair trade within the world economy. Because Western farmers are subsidised and protected from price changes. Whilst those in Africa are not. So they are unable to compete.

 

Buy FairTrade!

 

My family are not buying Christmas presents this year. We are all going to buy each other things from the Oxfam catalogue, where you can by a goat, donkey or school supplies etc.

[Guest]

but developping countries cannot afford to invest in clean power. Dirty power is much cheaper and in fast growing economies they need lots and lots of quick resource.

 

but the trade issue is wrong.

 

we opened trade up in Africa and suddently traditional African farmers could not compete with vastly more efficient western counterparts.

 

so "fair trade" doesn't work.

 

the only way it would work if you are biased towards the poor and small producers.

[JoeP]

Actually, Robbie, it's often cheaper for developing nations to use some form or renewable energy if you consider the total life cost of the facilities.

 

Also, it's not essential that all industries and economic processes in developing countries are manufacturing, and even then not all manufacturing industries are vast consumers of energy.

 

A country like China will want to cement it's status as an emergent superpower by building a heavy industrial and consumer infrastructure. Other countries may be happy just to feed, educate and house their people.

 

Joe

[StarSparkle]

Originally posted by JoeP

Other countries may be happy just to feed, educate and house their people.

 

Joe

 

Where are these paradise countries, Joe? Outer space?

 

All governments appear to be into self-aggrandisement at the expense of their people. (Except maybe Cuba )

 

StarSparkle

[Guest]

Originally posted by JoeP

Actually, Robbie, it's often cheaper for developing nations to use some form or renewable energy if you consider the total life cost of the facilities.

 

Also, it's not essential that all industries and economic processes in developing countries are manufacturing, and even then not all manufacturing industries are vast consumers of energy.

 

A country like China will want to cement it's status as an emergent superpower by building a heavy industrial and consumer infrastructure. Other countries may be happy just to feed, educate and house their people.

 

Joe

 

but in order to utilise green power it takes a hell of a lot of investment to produce enough for the needs of everyone.

[Guest]

Originally posted by StarSparkle

Where are these paradise countries, Joe? Outer space?

 

All governments appear to be into self-aggrandisement at the expense of their people. (Except maybe Cuba )

 

StarSparkle

 

talk about showing your true colours!

[StarSparkle]

Originally posted by robbie

talk about showing your true colours!

 

 

Not quite sure what you're getting at there, Robbie.....

 

I don't believe I've ever tried to hide my beliefs.

 

StarSparkle

[JoeP]

Originally posted by robbie

but in order to utilise green power it takes a hell of a lot of investment to produce enough for the needs of everyone.

 

But Robbie, you're assuming that every nation will need the same per capita use of energy as we in the West do. That's not necessarily going to be the case.

 

Much of our energy consumption in the West is consumer lifestyle driven. Much of the population of the world is at a place where having clean drinking water is more of an issue that having an X-Box 360.

 

Realistically, we're never going to be in a position where 6 billion people on the planet have the lifestyle of the energy guzzling US, for example.

 

This is why earlier on I used the word 'appropriate'.

 

The improvement in living standards that can be obtained by relatively small increases in energy availability in developing nations is vast - it's energy for pumping, which can often be sourced from solar panels and storage batteries. It's energy for night lighting and radio / TV - which again in many villages is easy to produce.

 

The majority of the population of the world are not going to make the 'great leap forward' in to economic overdrive that people seem to fear. They're going to potter along for decades to come.

 

Also, progress and economic growth is not necessarily the best option for any society or country - sometimes, holding steady at a sensible place might be the best for the people.

 

The issues around this topic aren't just ecological and economic - they're cultural and philosophical as well.

 

Joe