Fivetide Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 cheapcod, I have sympathy with the Chinese, I do- but they pulled the skin off a fox without killing it first. No practical or money-saving reason- they just did it 'cos they could. I'm sorry but that's not acceptable. No, it really isn't. That's just horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macduff Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 cheapcod, I have sympathy with the Chinese, I do- but they pulled the skin off a fox without killing it first. No practical or money-saving reason- they just did it \'cos they could. I\'m sorry but that\'s not acceptable.I\'ve seen a rather inflammatory video made by anti-fur campaigners which shows a dog, tied to a gate by thick wire round its neck, being skinned alive. It\'s a large dog, not too dissimilar to my own German Shepherd, and the screams are stomach-churning, even to me as an admitted hunter for many years. In the same video, the viewer sees a pile of skinned dogs, with even their heads skinned right down to the eyelids missing, then - and this was really disturbing - one skinned head weakly lifted itself to look into the camera. Shocking, sickening, and wholly unnecessary, but the issue wasn\'t the fur trade (of course, in Vietnam and other countries the reason for skinning a dog is for its meat), the issue was unnecessary suffering due to cultural ignorance and lack of regulation. That won\'t stop if we burn our old fur coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shims Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Simple really - leather shoes are something we see a hundred times a day and are fully desensitised to (except the really extreme vegan loonies). Leather is a by-product of the meat industry so if someone has an issue with it and doesn't wish to wear it, it does not make them 'extreme' or a 'loony'. What seems extreme to me is indifference to animal suffering. Vegans are doing their bit to try to make the world a better place. In our western world, there are stringent regulations which do not permit us to be cruel to animals. Maybe in some cases but cruelty is big (and legal) business if comes in the guise of scientific research. Also it's naive to believe that regulations prevent cruelty. They certainly don't stop it in our slaughterhouses. The suffering of a battery hen/chinchilla doesn't have any impact on my conscience, thank you very much... Even if I caused their suffering and especially if that suffering was for a decent reason. They're just 'Dumb animals' (and having kept chickens I've learned to loathe them appropriately). A decent reason for suffering? If you caused the suffering it should be on your conscience. If as you state, it really wouldn't bother you, it just shows what a worthless example of our species you must be. I can be an all or nothing kind of person, which is why I've never been a vegetarian. I love eating meat, so the only justification for me turning veggie would be on animal rights grounds...and then I'd have to be a vegan...and eventually I'd have to be a Jain...I just don't have the energy, frankly. It's better to do something than nothing at all. I love the taste of meat too but I choose not to eat it. I don't have the need to eat it and see my enjoyment of it as a worthwhile sacrifice to make so that I can opt out of something I disapprove of (the slaughterhouse industry). Nobody suffers because of their abstinence from meat consumption. You should not compare China with our culture, you have to experience true poverty and famine to under stand what you will eat, in there culture the do not understand companionship from animals, so a dog and a cat is like you keeping a chicken in your house Poverty and hunger has nothing to do with ripping a live animal apart. Any intelligent adult or child from any part of the world knows that would cause the most extreme suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fivetide Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Leather is a by-product of the meat industry so if someone has an issue with it and doesn't wish to wear it, it does not make them 'extreme' or a 'loony'. What seems extreme to me is indifference to animal suffering. Vegans are doing their bit to try to make the world a better place. Not saying owt about the 'looney' comment, I have no issue with people who choose not to eat or use animal products. Maybe in some cases but cruelty is big (and legal) business if comes in the guise of scientific research. Also it's naive to believe that regulations prevent cruelty. They certainly don't stop it in our slaughterhouses. Nowt wrong with scientific research on animals, if done for medical reasons. Cosmetic testing I'm not so keen on. I think they should test on the models. A decent reason for suffering? If you caused the suffering it should be on your conscience. If as you state, it really wouldn't bother you, it just shows what a worthless example of our species you must be. Yes, a decent reason for suffering. Clothing is a decent enough reason to keep, breed and kill common animals, in my opinion. Same with meat. As for the second part of your comment it says more about you and the value of your contribution than it does about me. It's better to do something than nothing at all. I love the taste of meat too but I choose not to eat it. I don't have the need to eat it and see my enjoyment of it as a worthwhile sacrifice to make so that I can opt out of something I disapprove of (the slaughterhouse industry). Nobody suffers because of their abstinence from meat consumption. That's up to you. Other people feel differently. I for one have no emotional reaction to animals that have been specifically bred and raised for slaughter. Poverty and hunger has nothing to do with ripping a live animal apart. Any intelligent adult or child from any part of the world knows that would cause the most extreme suffering. Find a post on this thread that supports the ripping apart of a live animal. The one you gave this reply to was about what we would call 'domestic animals' being seen more as livestock in a different culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthedog Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Would you skin a human and wear their pelt in that case? No, I probably wouldn't. Although if I had a twin I reckon he'd make for a snug fitting jacket. We used to skin humans except we used their skins for book bindings. When murderers had been executed the findings of their post-mortem would be bound in their skin. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LitleMermaid Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Although if I had a twin I reckon he'd make for a snug fitting jacket. Ok, that make me smile:hihi: We used to skin humans except we used their skins for book bindings. When murderers had been executed the findings of their post-mortem would be bound in their skin. Nice. Yes, but those humans had done something wrong. Can't honestly say I agree with the death sentence, but the humans who commited atrocious crimes has full awareness of what they were doing, and the consequences of their actions. What have any of the animals skinned alive/bred for fur/meat in sickening conditions done to deserve their hideous fate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthedog Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 What have any of the animals skinned alive/bred for fur/meat in sickening conditions done to deserve their hideous fate? Skinned alive? Don't be obtuse. It is quite clearly alarmist propoganda that shows that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LitleMermaid Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Skinned alive? Don't be obtuse. It is quite clearly alarmist propoganda that shows that happening. You don't believe it happens then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 It's no good shooting animals though, it puts nasty holes in the scarf or gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 .. and you thought I was joking? http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/Up-to-70-cats-gone.4380738.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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