Overweight people on air flights

[Rupert_Baehr]

 

...An aircraft has already crashed, resulting in the death of 21 people. A contributing factor was the amount of overweight people causing a shift in the centre of gravity.

 

Please post details.

 

How did the centre of gravity shift if the people were sitting down?

[Bonjon]

Don't forget the people who press the attendant button. Or those who use more than the average amount of time at check in. Aircraft cost a fortune to supply with water and clean and anyone who brings muck on on their shoes might consider paying more towards cleaning. Leave the in-flight magazines alone because they need replacing and I don't see why I should pay to watch stuff on screen when I have my book.

 

Finally, I have an especially efficient lungs so I expect everyone who doesn't else to pay more for the expensive air that they are breathing.

 

Those rotten fatties eh? What a can of worms they have opened up.

 

 

To me it just sounds like someone is bitter because they went over the baggage allowence, and are looking for someone to blame as they cant accept that they were at fault.

[CockneyMafia]

I think the biggest problem is when someone needs 1 1/2 seats and takes half of yours as well as their own. As someone who crosses the Atlantic frequently, I can tell you that 9 hours of being crushed is not a pleasant experience.

 

I nearly had a moment of tube range yesterday. A portly woman collapsed down next to me, slamming my body into the train walls like a comedy Wile E Coyote, and then had the temerity to say I was taking up too much space. I would have retorted, only my larynx was crushed.

[Paul2412]

Please post details.

 

How did the centre of gravity shift if the people were sitting down?

 

"Although the pilots had totaled up the take-off weight of the aircraft before the flight and determined it to be within limits, the plane was actually overloaded and out of balance, due to the use of incorrect (but FAA approved) passenger weight estimates. When checked, the NTSB found that the estimates were over 20 pounds (9 kg) lighter than the actual weight of an average passenger. After checking the actual weight of baggage retrieved from the crash site, and passengers (based on information from next-of-kin and the medical examiner), it was found that the aircraft was actually 600 pounds (272 kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weight, with its center of gravity 5% rear of allowable limits."

 

Taken from here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481

 

It was also on an episode of Air Crash Investigation.

[Tony]

I think the biggest problem is when someone needs 1 1/2 seats and takes half of yours as well as their own. As someone who crosses the Atlantic frequently, I can tell you that 9 hours of being crushed is not a pleasant experience.

 

That's not an operational cost issue though. Agreed that it is unpleasant, I've been there myself.

 

Please post details.

 

How did the centre of gravity shift if the people were sitting down?

 

The example quoted is atypical and it was mechanical issues that caused accident, exacerbated by the W&B being wrong only when the mechanical problem happened. It was a very small passenger aircraft and not comparable with the ones that most people fly on.

 

As for CofG, it's too complicated to go into here but essential there is a weight and balance envelope that is affected by the loading of the a/c. If it goes out of limits, forward or aft, it affects the centre of gravity but more importantly the centre of lift, potentially to a point where you will fall out of the sky.

 

But the operational limits on airliners are enormous and of no real consequence to the discussion here, and the occasional overweight person is of absolutely no consequence.

[Rupert_Baehr]

Thanks for the link, Paul.

 

As I suggested in an earlier post, people are now heavier than they were some years ago.

 

I note that the FAA recommend an average weight of 200lb (90.7Kg) per passenger. - 40 years ago (AFAIR) if you used average weight in the UK, it was assumed that an average male passenger weighed 70Kg and an average female weighed 60Kg. - Though firms like Glos-Air and Aurigny weighed each passenger and the check-in clerk filled out a loadsheet and allocated the passengers to appropriate seats. (The pilot usually 'eyeballed' the calculation, but the desk staff rarely got it wrong.)

[Tony]

They do that because they use very small passenger aircraft where it is much more important to get it right. I expect that if you turned up for their flight and were out of limits you would be turned away or take two paid places.

[chem1st]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8471451.stm

 

So an extra seat next to a fat person is 25% cheaper for the fat person, free, if the aircraft ain't full.

 

Yet it is full price for the skinny person, whom has to share it with the fat person.

[chem1st]

It's a nonsense argument.

 

Yes aeroplanes do have strict weight and balance limits and there is a financial cost to carrying more weight. However this is never going to be enough of an operating factor that becomes a commercial factor on airliners. A few hundred kilos on a +75 tonne a/c is so much of an irrelevance that choice of diversion destinations and the weight of diversion fuel is calculated carefully but precise passenger load factors are simply averaged per person.

 

All this thread is about is a few silly people fretting that somebody might somehow be getting something that they aren't.

 

Operating costs of an A380 compared to a 747 are 20% less, per seat.

 

However they would be less per passenger on the 747 if the passengers occupied one seat, whilst those on the A380 occupied 2 seats each.

[Rupert_Baehr]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8471451.stm

 

So an extra seat next to a fat person is 25% cheaper for the fat person, free, if the aircraft ain't full.

 

Yet it is full price for the skinny person, whom has to share it with the fat person.

 

If you look at the link you quoted, there's a panel to the right of the article headed 'Airlines' woes' with the following titles:

JAL bankruptcy filing confirmed

Monarch hits back at Paddy Power

Security fears hit airline shares

Airlines 'to lose $5.6bn in 2010'

BA and Iberia agree merger deal

 

Civil Aviation is a very competitive industry and the number of companies (particularly those operating long-haul routes) has fallen dramatically during the last 15 years or so.

 

No doubt the airlines will charge what they think they can get away with, but those charges are also limited by what the passengers are prepared to pay.

 

If I need to travel within Europe, then if I don't have to go by air, I won't. If I do have to fly, I'll probably use Ryanair or Easyjet (It depends on the time of year; Easyjet are more convenient for the route(s) I use, but they only operate services on those routes during winter-time.)

 

I no longer travel frequently across the Atlantic - It's now an average of one round trip per annum. For the next 18 months, time will be a consideration so I will fly. After that, I'm seriously considering going by boat.