Science Fiction

[Cyclone]

On 05/04/2019 at 07:38, SnailyBoy said:

The only thing you know is the number marbles is are either odd or even, agreed?

 

What's the belief in the 'the thing', ?

You know that one of those states is true, you don't have a belief that it's either one because you are rejecting the claim from the person who says they know (you don't believe them).

On 05/04/2019 at 07:49, SnailyBoy said:

No, this is where you're way off., it was never claimed as knowing

 

You're rejecting the assertion that the number is odd, it hasn't been demonstrated.

 

Someone could then make the assertion that the number is even, that too would be rejected for the same reason as the first assertion, it hasn't been demonstrated that the number is even.

 

However using your thinking, the number should now be believed that the number is even, having rejected the first assertion that the number is odd, even though it still hasn't been demonstrated to be true.

 

So now, what do you think about the number of marbles, odd or even?

 

 

You can keep rejecting assertions from people all day.  That means you don't believe the assertion.  It doesn't mean that you do or do not believe that the number is odd or even.  Belief or not in the assertion is separate from believe in a state of the odd/even ness of the marbles.

[Cyclone]

1 hour ago, FinBak said:

Odd or Even?....The Correct answer is BOTH..

I understand the Universe and what it's made of.  You can pitch ANY explanation at Me and i would guess i'd have a pretty good idea of what you're on about.

The answer is BOTH...! I answered this post but it never showed up.!! Blast.

 

Clearly the answer can never be both unless you're actually mad and think that two mutually exclusive things can somehow both be true.

[SnailyBoy]

12 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You know that one of those states is true, you don't have a belief that it's either one because you are rejecting the claim from the person who says they know (you don't believe them).

Yes, the default position is neutral (odd or even). I haven't claimed otherwise.

 

13 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You can keep rejecting assertions from people all day.  That means you don't believe the assertion.  It doesn't mean that you do or do not believe that the number is odd or even.  Belief or not in the assertion is separate from believe in a state of the odd/even ness of the marbles.

Indeed, I haven't claimed otherwise. I've already accepted from the beginning that the neutral position is odd or even.

 

If someone asserts that they believe the number is even, If I'm in the neutral position, I reject that assertion.

 

That doesn't mean that I think the number is odd, as I'm sure you know we only address a single prong of a dilemma at time.

[Cyclone]

You just spent pages arguing that if you reject their assertion that I had claimed that you believed the opposite.  I didn't.  And now you seem to agree with me.

 

So on the question of odd or even, once you state that you do not believe it is X, then by definition you do believe it is Y.  Because there is no indeterminate state.

If on the other hand you reject a claim that it is X, then that is not the same as disbelieving that it is X.  Disbelieving the claim is not the same as disbelieving the state.  We now seem to agree on that.

 

 

[SnailyBoy]

25 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You just spent pages arguing that if you reject their assertion that I had claimed that you believed the opposite.  I didn't.  And now you seem to agree with me.

 

So on the question of odd or even, once you state that you do not believe it is X, then by definition you do believe it is Y.  Because there is no indeterminate state.

If on the other hand you reject a claim that it is X, then that is not the same as disbelieving that it is X.  Disbelieving the claim is not the same as disbelieving the state.  We now seem to agree on that.

 

 

Here's another example/question

 

Atheism is a rejection of the claim that a god/gods exist, agreed?

 

Does that mean atheists believe there is/are no god/gods?

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by SnailyBoy

[Cyclone]

10 hours ago, SnailyBoy said:

 

Here's another example/question

 

Atheism is a rejection of the claim that a god/gods exist, agreed?

 

Does that mean atheists believe there is/are no god/gods?

 

 

It's very different to your earlier hypothetical isn't it.  You're not asking about whether someone accepts or rejects the argument of atheism from someone else, but instead whether they are one themselves.  Two very different positions.

[RootsBooster]

11 hours ago, Cyclone said:

You just spent pages arguing that if you reject their assertion that I had claimed that you believed the opposite.  I didn't.  And now you seem to agree with me.

 

So on the question of odd or even, once you state that you do not believe it is X, then by definition you do believe it is Y.  Because there is no indeterminate state.

If on the other hand you reject a claim that it is X, then that is not the same as disbelieving that it is X.  Disbelieving the claim is not the same as disbelieving the state.  We now seem to agree on that.

 

 

I have a quantity of items in front of me, do you believe that it is an odd amount?

[SnailyBoy]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

It's very different to your earlier hypothetical isn't it.  You're not asking about whether someone accepts or rejects the argument of atheism from someone else, but instead whether they are one themselves.  Two very different positions.

No, it's no different from the jar of marbles. It has nothing to do with an 'argument of atheism'.

 

There are two logical options, a god exists or doesn't exist.

 

Can you at least agree that?

 

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Actually forget it, this has all been done before here

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by SnailyBoy

[SnailyBoy]

....................................

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by SnailyBoy

[RootsBooster]

9 minutes ago, SnailyBoy said:

I'm also curious on the assertion above.

 

Theist Claim - A god exists (X)

 

Response - I reject your claim, I don't believe you. (Atheist)

 

Are you really asserting that rejecting a claim is not the same as disbelief?

 

 

It's gets a bit complicated when people start using the word 'disbelief'. The definition of the word varies from person to person.

 

From OED;

 

-Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.

 

-Lack of faith.