Science Fiction

[SnailyBoy]

36 minutes ago, RootsBooster said:

It's gets a bit complicated when people start using the word 'disbelief'. The definition of the word varies from person to person.

 

From OED;

 

-Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.

 

-Lack of faith.
 

Fair enough, good point. I've amended my post.

 

Plus your logic statement below really put this to bed.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by SnailyBoy

[Cyclone]

2 hours ago, SnailyBoy said:

No, it's no different from the jar of marbles. It has nothing to do with an 'argument of atheism'.

 

There are two logical options, a god exists or doesn't exist.

 

Can you at least agree that?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Actually forget it, this has all been done before here

 

It's definitely different because earlier you weren't talking about whether the number of marbles was odd or even, you were talking about a claim from someone that one of those things was the case.

You can't seem to understand the difference between believing a claim of a thing and believing a thing.

3 hours ago, RootsBooster said:

I have a quantity of items in front of me, do you believe that it is an odd amount?

Are you telling me that it is?  Or am I supposed to guess?

[RootsBooster]

2 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Are you telling me that it is?  Or am I supposed to guess?

I'm just asking if you believe it's an odd amount.

[Cyclone]

This is different to the hypothetical we were discussing though.

 

I don't believe it.  Neither do I disbelieve it.  I'm not able to make any reasoned judgement about the state because I have no information about it.

[RootsBooster]

 

18 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

This is different to the hypothetical we were discussing though.

 

I don't believe it.  

Then, by your rules you must believe it is an even amount...

 

15 hours ago, Cyclone said:

So on the question of odd or even, once you state that you do not believe it is X, then by definition you do believe it is Y.  Because there is no indeterminate state.

The limitations you set in post #134 make no allowance for this option...

20 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Neither do I disbelieve it.  I'm not able to make any reasoned judgement about the state because I have no information about it.

(before we continue, if you're going to use the word 'disbelieve' could you confirm your definition of it?)

[Cyclone]

You're deliberately blurring together "don't believe" something and disbelieve something.

In #134 I could have been more clear and used the wording "once you state that you disbelieve".

 

Not believe - not having a positive believe in a thing, perhaps because of a lack of information, a superset of;

Disbelieve - actively denying that a thing is the case.

 

Does that help?

 

Why have you taken over from Snailyboy and abandoned the marbles hypothetical though?  Is it tag team?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Cyclone

[RootsBooster]

3 hours ago, Cyclone said:

You're deliberately blurring together "don't believe" something and disbelieve something.

In #134 I could have been more clear and used the wording "once you state that you disbelieve".

 

Not believe - not having a positive believe in a thing, perhaps because of a lack of information, a superset of;

Disbelieve - actively denying that a thing is the case.

 

Does that help?

I don't see how I am blurring anything, you've just clarified that by 'not believing' you mean the same as I do. If I do not believe something exists, that does not mean I automatically believe it doesn't exist (or if I don't believe a quantity is even, that doesn't mean I automatically believe it's odd).

 

In post #134 you stated that "on the question of odd or even, once you state that you do not believe it is X, then by definition you do believe it is Y.  Because there is no indeterminate state"

That statement seems to say that if you do not believe in X then you must hold the opposing belief (what you refer to as disbelieving).

We've disagreed on this many times in the past, your stance seems to change somewhat but my stance has always been that if I do not believe that a god exists, that does not mean I have to believe that a god does not exist. Absence of belief is not belief of absence.

I've presented the following logic statement before;

 

A= Belief in X

B= Belief in Y

C= Neither belief (absence of both beliefs)

 

If A = false then either B = true or C= true

If A = true then B=false and C= false

 

What you're saying is;

If A = false then B = true

 

so where does that leave C?

 

You claim it's a case of there only being two options ( A & B) yet in post #144 you claimed the third option (C)

 

EDIT: My apologies, I didn't absorb your post fully and missed this:

"In #134 I could have been more clear and used the wording "once you state that you disbelieve".

 

This is the first time you've ever made this distinction, although in every interaction we've had on the matter I've always clarified that by "not believing" I mean exactly that.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by RootsBooster
added a bit

[Obelix]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 19:25, FinBak said:

 

I understand the Universe and what it's made of.  You can pitch ANY explanation at Me and i would guess i'd have a pretty good idea of what you're on about.

 

 

Would you care to tell us what your general level of understanding is without the hyperbole...?

 

Otherwise I might just waffle on about non abelian tensor wave fields and get everyone confused.

[FinBak]

On 08/04/2019 at 11:25, Obelix said:

Would you care to tell us what your general level of understanding is without the hyperbole...?

 

Otherwise I might just waffle on about non abelian tensor wave fields and get everyone confused.

OK.  I don't have any 'Formal' qualifications, or any letters after My name, if that's what you are on about?

 

How can one sum up ,their 'General Level' of understanding?

 

I understand how black holes are created, i understand how matter can exist in TWO places at once..I understand that there are more Dimensions that 3...!

 

Let's not forget...I understand about 'Quantum Gravity'..too..!

 

When we read good books we learn things. When we assume things found in Nature...are 'Designed'.. We don't learn anything.

 

 

[Obelix]

OK come back when you want to let us know then.