Karis Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 It's one of my bugbears too. I find myself grinding my teeth on many an occasion. Although, I meant to put two 'z' in there, but only just noticed that I didn't. However, apparently it can be spelt either way...so I'll leave it. Yeah. I don't know which Z or ZZ I prefer, so I stuck with one as it seems proper somehow! The XMAS special with an Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express - how insanly whacky does that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakerzoid Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 The XMAS special with an Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express - how insanly whacky does that sound? Sounds absolutely bonkers (and wasn't it the Orient Express...in space?) Think a bit of daftness will be a refreshing break from the "timey-wimey" meddling of this season, and will clear the mind ready for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I don't know. I'm hoping for *the* Orient Express, but it did sound a bit sci-fi so we're probably looking at an Xmas starship! Can't wait, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakerzoid Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I don't know. I'm hoping for *the* Orient Express, but it did sound a bit sci-fi so we're probably looking at an Xmas starship! Can't wait, though However, as there was no tease of the actual episode like we have had in previous years, it is still possible that it was just a red herring, and the whole adventure will be skipped. It is possible that it was just a throwaway joke line to finish the series on. We'll have to wait for a trailer later in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I read an interview where MS said they only start filming on July 12... So I was gutted not to have even a sneaky peak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Blade Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Im still not getting it! Ive never seen Bill & Ted though, so maybe that's why? Neither do I . I see what Beakerzoid is saying about B&T and the paradox but until just before they put the Dr. into the Pandorica he did not know what it was so how could he do all the flitting back and forth In B&T they knew about the keys so they could go back in time steal & hide them. The first the DR. knew was as they put him in it so there fore he couldn't have gone forward to the future to then go back in time to get Rory to rescue him This is what is getting to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakerzoid Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) Neither do I . I see what Beakerzoid is saying about B&T and the paradox but until just before they put the Dr. into the Pandorica he did not know what it was so how could he do all the flitting back and forth In B&T they knew about the keys so they could go back in time steal & hide them. The first the DR. knew was as they put him in it so there fore he couldn't have gone forward to the future to then go back in time to get Rory to rescue him This is what is getting to me He didn't go forward at all. It was after he was imprisoned that he came to the idea that once he got out he would go back in time to set up events. So, he was already imprisoned. He did all the flitting back and forth after he got out, not before. He can only get out, however, by engineering his own escape once free. That is the paradox that he crafts (a dangerous risk to take at any other time, but with the universe and all of time collapsing, it was justifiable). He already knew his sonic screwdriver could affect the lock of the pandorica (so think of that knowledge as being similar to the knowledge of the keys in B&T). So he needed to get the keys outside to Rory in order to get out. By making an internal promise to 'fill the time holes' after he escapes, he sets the paradox in motion, and so long as he does fill those holes he won't wipe out anything remaining. Like I said, these type of paradoxical loops pop up anywhere time travel is used, some more obvious than others. The more you dwell on them, the more you drive yourself nuts. Edited June 29, 2010 by Beakerzoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) You all need to watch this 49 second documentary on the science of time travel... Edited June 29, 2010 by Karis Tyspos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoad Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Basically, you are in a situation where you cannot do something as you are either trapped, or do not have the time to fetch an item you need. However, you do know how to obtain a time travel device, or already have one. Therefore you say to yourself, "Once I get out of here, I will go back in time and make sure that the device I need is available, and the person who can help me has it." All of a sudden the person you plan to get to help you with said device does just that. Now, you have created a paradox event - one that could not have happened without your manipulations of future (and past) events sometime ahead of you. In order for space/time to not collapse upon itself you need to now ensure that you do all the things required of you to 'plug the gaps' (find item, give it to the person so they can let you escape). This is what the Doctor did with all his quick jumps back and forth. Whilst this still leaves the paradox that you could not have gotten out of the prison in order to get yourself out of the prison, you have, effectively, closed the loop in time, sealing the paradox in its own virtual bubble if you wish. As mentioned such breaches of the time code are a big no-no for the Doctor, but he can justify the use of them all here as the universe (or multiverse) was already ruptured and required meddling in to heal it. Hope that has made it clearer. To clarify the Bill & Ted's example - early in the first film it is revealed that Ted's father, chief of police, has lost his keys. Later in the film (sometime after obtaining a time travel device and various historical figures) they need to break some of their figures out of jail (don't ask). To do so they need the key which is missing. It is at that point that they decide that once everything is over they will use the time machine to go back to before the key was missing, steal it, and place it under a plant pot for them to use now. Cue them picking up a plant pot and finding the key. (The second B&T film goes overboard with this manipulation towards the end). Best thing to do is not worry too much about time paradoxes like this as they pop up everywhere (such as Terminator - if Kyle hadn't gone back to protect Sarah then she would never had conceived John in the first place, so where did John come from in the first place to send Kyle back to save Sarah in order for her to fall in love with him?). And don't get me started on Back to the Future or Donnie Darko I think the whole of the film Paycheck is based around this same premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoad Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 However, as there was no tease of the actual episode like we have had in previous years, it is still possible that it was just a red herring, and the whole adventure will be skipped. It is possible that it was just a throwaway joke line to finish the series on. We'll have to wait for a trailer later in the year. I too suspected that this would be one of his many spoken of, but undocumented adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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