flamingjimmy Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And as for your silly claim that animals are gay as well, do you have any evidence? When was the last time you saw a dog mincing down the street in tight trousers and a pink blouse and dancing to Bronski Beat? You clearly didn't read the rest of this thread did you? yes we do have evidence for this, i posted links to several sites with information about research into homosexual behaviour in other species. Not true, not true at all, firstly there's bonobos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior then there's documented evidence of many other animals engaging in 'buggery' http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/jun/16/thisweekssciencequestions2 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6066606.stm "It says homosexuality has been observed among 1,500 species, and that in 500 of those it is well documented." - from the second link. As you can see it's quite natural plenty of Animals do it. Just to clarify that last part for you, that's at least 500 different species that are well documented and we can be sure of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathman Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 Well, Anj, if you believe that, then I feel very concerned, indeed for the quality of the sources of your information. realising that this is actually a thread about same-sex partnerships, and that this is taking things slightly off course:- In places like the US, where young people are told merely to "abstain", and aren't given adequate information about birth control, and safe sex, there is an epidemic of young women getting pregnant. (even the ones who have made the "silver ring celibacy pledge, just FYI) Young people are being told that "AIDS is God's Punishment". They are being told that "condoms don't work", either in preventing STI's OR unwanted pregnancies. They are unable to access contraceptive services. They are being denied the choice of safe terminations should they need them. They are being taught that being Gay makes you some sort of Untermensch, rather than having the opportunity to appreciate and accept themselves, and understand that everyone is valid, and has the right to live peaceably, and happily. I'm sorry, but that's just utterly wrong. you know PT, you really can talk a lot of sense sometimes. ^ please note the smiley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 barny_100, just to be clear since I started this thread and used the words "right-wing Christian nut jobs" in the OP, I wasn't referring to white people, middle-class people, Christians or even George Bush. what I was quite specifically referring to was "right-wing Christian nut jobs". people that think that one line in Leviticus 18:22 is more relevant than all the other lines in Leviticus and Deuteronomy precisely because it fuels their own bigotry. people that believe punishing peaceful men and women for their private pleasure is perfectly reasonable. people, some of them in their fancy pants, that believe $75m is worthwhile spending on a campaign to make a victimised minority more unhappy. If leviticus 18:22 is enforceable, then so is the law against eating pig meat, wearing clothing of mixed fibres or:- 19: 26 " 'Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. " 'Do not practice divination or sorcery. also:- 19:33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (an interesting one for the anti-immigration lot!) and what about the people who omit to keeping the religious holidays and fail to pay tithes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debkins Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Next you'll be saying that a black person can't be with a white person because it's not "normal". The FACT is, homosexuality, in the majority of cases, is not a choice! It's in the person's genetic make up. If this is the case, then it has to be a natural occurence! Then again, I'm talking to someone who thinks it's natural to believe in an all powerful invisible being that supposedly created everone and everything on the planet! Agreed! I don't believe people become gay due to their envrionment, I think it's there before they're even born! So people telling them they're WRONG and unnatural is just disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CottonTop Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Well, Anj, if you believe that, then I feel very concerned, indeed for the quality of the sources of your information. realising that this is actually a thread about same-sex partnerships, and that this is taking things slightly off course:- In places like the US, where young people are told merely to "abstain", and aren't given adequate information about birth control, and safe sex, there is an epidemic of young women getting pregnant. (even the ones who have made the "silver ring celibacy pledge, just FYI) Young people are being told that "AIDS is God's Punishment". They are being told that "condoms don't work", either in preventing STI's OR unwanted pregnancies. They are unable to access contraceptive services. They are being denied the choice of safe terminations should they need them. They are being taught that being Gay makes you some sort of Untermensch, rather than having the opportunity to appreciate and accept themselves, and understand that everyone is valid, and has the right to live peaceably, and happily. I'm sorry, but that's just utterly wrong. Maybe another thread about this topic is in order but what you've said there, PT, is not strictly true. While the sex education provided by schools vary from state to state, and many southern states in the US do teach abstinence, they also teach about STD's (including HIV and AIDS), contraceptives, etc. As for an epidemic of teen pregnancy, both the US and the UK have the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the developed world. The birth rate for girls aged 15-19 is 52 out of 1,000 in the US and 30 out of 1,000 in the UK. Between 1995 and 2002, U.S. teen pregnancy rates declined by nearly one-quarter and most of the decline is attributed to more sexually active teens using contraceptives, using more effective methods (e.g., condoms and birth control pills) and using multiple methods (e.g., the pill together with condoms) in 2002 than in 1995. Why are they using more contraceptives? Because they are more readily available than in the past. AIDS being described as "God's punishment".....I've not heard that out of any school system I am familiar with but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it from a religious based, private school. Teenage girls are not being denied termination of unwanted pregnancy though in most states, they are required to have parental consent. Some states allow for the consent to be from any relative over the age of 18 bypassing the need for parents to be informed. All teens in every state, as far as I am aware, need no parental consent for an abortion in an emergency situation. Alternative lifestyle choices (i.e. homosexual relationships) are also taught as part of sex education, even in the south. And I remember my then 5 year old daughter bringing home a library book that was about a boy with 2 fathers and no mother. While we aren't as liberal in this area as the UK, we are making headway. We aren't as backwards as you all would like to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathman Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 If leviticus 18:22 is enforceable, then so is the law against eating pig meat, wearing clothing of mixed fibres or:- 19: 26 " 'Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. " 'Do not practice divination or sorcery. also:- 19:33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (an interesting one for the anti-immigration lot!) and what about the people who omit to keeping the religious holidays and fail to pay tithes? oh come on PT, you can do much better than that! Deuteronomy 21:18–21 offers this parental moral guideline: “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.” my daughter's been very stubborn recently, what to do Deuteronomy 22:13–21, “If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,’ then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate.” (For those not accustomed to reading between the biblical lines, the phrase “goes in to her” should be taken literally, and “the tokens of virginity” means the hymen and the blood on the sheet from a virgin’s first sexual experience.) If the father of the bride can produce the tokens of virginity, then he “shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man [the husband] and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife.” However, lo to the woman who has dared to have sex before marriage. “But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.” and one line about gays in Leviticus trumps all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppins Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I would most likely recommend that they move up north to Sodom-on-Sea (San Francisco to you) Thats a new one to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Maybe another thread about this topic is in order but what you've said there, PT, is not strictly true. While the sex education provided by schools vary from state to state, and many southern states in the US do teach abstinence, they also teach about STD's (including HIV and AIDS), contraceptives, etc. As for an epidemic of teen pregnancy, both the US and the UK have the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the developed world. The birth rate for girls aged 15-19 is 52 out of 1,000 in the US and 30 out of 1,000 in the UK. Between 1995 and 2002, U.S. teen pregnancy rates declined by nearly one-quarter and most of the decline is attributed to more sexually active teens using contraceptives, using more effective methods (e.g., condoms and birth control pills) and using multiple methods (e.g., the pill together with condoms) in 2002 than in 1995. Why are they using more contraceptives? Because they are more readily available than in the past. AIDS being described as "God's punishment".....I've not heard that out of any school system I am familiar with but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it from a religious based, private school. Teenage girls are not being denied termination of unwanted pregnancy though in most states, they are required to have parental consent. Some states allow for the consent to be from any relative over the age of 18 bypassing the need for parents to be informed. All teens in every state, as far as I am aware, need no parental consent for an abortion in an emergency situation. Alternative lifestyle choices (i.e. homosexual relationships) are also taught as part of sex education, even in the south. And I remember my then 5 year old daughter bringing home a library book that was about a boy with 2 fathers and no mother. While we aren't as liberal in this area as the UK, we are making headway. We aren't as backwards as you all would like to think. Thank you, CottonTop. I grew up and went to school in the Bay Area, which may have been more progressive than the rest of the US, but still. I am in my forties, so we are talking thirty years ago. As minors (someone under the age of eighteen) in California, we were given access to anything having to do with reproductive health, including pregnancy tests (the old school tests, where you had to wait six weeks from the first day of your last period), abortions up to 12 weeks, and any and all forms of birth control, except the pill and the IUD. Which required a doctor's prescription to dispense and therefore, parental consent. And even circumventing that was simply a matter of finding the right doctor or clinic. Just tell them your cramps were so bad you couldn't get out of bed, and bingo! Instant prescription! And money wasn't a problem, all of these services (at the time) were on a sliding scale. If you didn't have even the small amount they requested, it was totally free. Abstinence was just another form of birth control. Basically, one way of saying that you didn't have to "do it" if you didn't want to. I do not understand why some of you are so angry about this happening in California. Why not be equally angry about the UK, which, as Lord C pointed out pages ago, has the same draconian law. In fact, I think it's worse there, at least here it's being pushed through the courts and may actually stand a chance next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppins Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Well, Anj, if you believe that, then I feel very concerned, indeed for the quality of the sources of your information. realising that this is actually a thread about same-sex partnerships, and that this is taking things slightly off course:- In places like the US, where young people are told merely to "abstain", and aren't given adequate information about birth control, and safe sex, there is an epidemic of young women getting pregnant. (even the ones who have made the "silver ring celibacy pledge, just FYI) Young people are being told that "AIDS is God's Punishment". They are being told that "condoms don't work", either in preventing STI's OR unwanted pregnancies. They are unable to access contraceptive services. They are being denied the choice of safe terminations should they need them. They are being taught that being Gay makes you some sort of Untermensch, rather than having the opportunity to appreciate and accept themselves, and understand that everyone is valid, and has the right to live peaceably, and happily. I'm sorry, but that's just utterly wrong. Just goes to show you how Muslims are brain washed about the USA, I dosen't get much funnier than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Maybe another thread about this topic is in order Please, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.