California bans same-sex marriage - ban overturned

[esme]

deal

 

but you didn't need the smiley, that was a little insulting and you are assuming I'm male

[Harleyman]

deal

 

but you didn't need the smiley, that was a little insulting and you are assuming I'm male

 

Sorry. Maybe a little crude on my part. If you're female sorry for my assumption that you were otherwise. If you're pretty to look at I would compliment you as such but that might be out of order on my part. Right:)

[esme]

yes I'm female, as for pretty I don't think so but my partner disagrees

 

I don't agree with the idea that compliments are a form of sexual harrassment if I think a guy looks good I'll happily tell him so, should he be offended - no, so why should I

 

but the chances of you ever seeing me to make an appraisal are remote

 

and we seem to be straying off topic in that I don't believe this proposition 8 issue has gone away as much as some people would like it to and that I think that equal rights for all regardless of creed, sexual orientation, colour, ability or any other factor is a good thing

[plekhanov]

[/b][/b]

No it wasn't as far as black Americans in the southern states were concerned. My whole point in arguing is that England is/was no better than America when when it comes to racism although many forum members seem to think otherwise.

Really so the UK had racial segregation did it? Did the authorities systematically set out to deny non-white citizens their right to vote? Were lynchings a fact of life in England? Did the UK ban interracial marriage?...

 

If as you claim racism in the UK was as bad as in the US then why were Brits appalled by the racist treatment of black GI's stationed in Britain by their own comrades?

 

The UK has obviously always been far from perfect but to claim racism here was anything like as bad as in the US is just absurd.

[Harleyman]

Really so the UK had racial segregation did it? Did the authorities systematically set out to deny non-white citizens their right to vote? Were lynchings a fact of life in England? Did the UK ban interracial marriage?...

 

If as you claim racism in the UK was as bad as in the US then why were Brits appalled by the racist treatment of black GI's stationed in Britain by their own comrades?

 

The UK has obviously always been far from perfect but to claim racism here was anything like as bad as in the US is just absurd.

 

Racism is racism no matter what level it's on and the UK is no exception even though it was/is praciiced in a less extreme way. Britain's class systen although not what could be classified as racism was an obnoxious system akin to racism. As I mentioned before the waves of immigrants who came to Britain to work from the latter part of the 19th century up until the 1970s were victims of racism (British style of course) Although social segregation was not an official policy as it was in the southern states of the US most of these immigrant groups were nevertheless confined to living in ghettos in the big industrial cities of Britain more by a system of subtle phychological exclusion

 

Apparently from what I've learned any politician who runs for election as prime minister has to be a member of the Church of England if he/she hopes to be elected. This requirement of course is religious discrimination and very much narrows down the field of prospective candidates. My idea of a male or female member of such a religious affiliation would be someone lily white. Would this requirement have the basis for making sure of keeping it "all in the family" so to speak? Cant see any candidate of Pakistani, Hindu or African descent converting to Anglican in order to qualify.

Those groups do not take their religious affiliations lightly

 

Racism in Britain may not have been as extreme as Jim Crow but it's there nevertheless

[flamingjimmy]

Racism is racism no matter what level it's on and the UK is no exception even though it was/is praciiced in a less extreme way. Britain's class systen although not what could be classified as racism was an obnoxious system akin to racism. As I mentioned before the waves of immigrants who came to Britain to work from the latter part of the 19th century up until the 1970s were victims of racism (British style of course)

 

Apparently from what I've learned any politician who runs for election as prime minister has to be a member of the Church of England if he/she hopes to be elected. This requirement of course is religious discrimination and very much narrows down the field of prospective candidates. My idea of a male or female member of such a religious affiliation would be someone lily white.

 

Racism in Britain may not have been as extreme as Jim Crow but it's there nevertheless

 

So this

My whole point in arguing is that England is/was no better than America when when it comes to racism although many forum members seem to think otherwise.

is false, thanks for clearing that up

[plekhanov]

Racism is racism no matter what level it's on and the UK is no exception even though it was/is praciiced in a less extreme way.

Less extreme = better, your previous claim "that England is/was no better than America when when it comes to racism" is just flat out wrong.

 

Britain's class systen although not what could be classified as racism

In what way?

 

was an obnoxious system akin to racism.

No it isn't, people move between classes all the time all it takes is opportunity & education in contrast you can't change races.

 

s I mentioned before the waves of immigrants who came to Britain to work from the latter part of the 19th century up until the 1970s were victims of racism (British style of course)

Yes and? When did I deny that there was racism in the UK? I was simply responding to your blatantly false claim that things weren't far worse in the US.

 

Apparently from what I've learned any politician who runs for election as prime minister has to be a member of the Church of England if he/she hopes to be elected. This requirement of course is religious discrimination and very much narrows down the field of prospective candidates. My idea of a male or female member of such a religious affiliation would be someone lily white.

Well you've been misinformed, our current PM isn't in the CofE nor for example was Lloyd George who not only wasn't in the CofE but spent much of his early career attacking it.

 

Due to the UKs historical conflicts with Catholicism many old laws prohibit Catholics holding high positions though it's far from clear that they'd be enforced today.

 

Racism in Britain may not have been as extreme as Jim Crow but it's there nevertheless

So you concede that your earlier claim to the contrary was entirely false then?

[Harleyman]

Less extreme = better, your previous claim "that England is/was no better than America when when it comes to racism" is just flat out wrong.

 

 

In what way?

 

 

No it isn't, people move between classes all the time all it takes is opportunity & education in contrast you can't change races.

 

 

Yes and? When did I deny that there was racism in the UK? I was simply responding to your blatantly false claim that things weren't far worse in the US.

 

 

Well you've been misinformed, our current PM isn't in the CofE nor for example was Lloyd George who not only wasn't in the CofE but spent much of his early career attacking it.

 

Due to the UKs historical conflicts with Catholicism many old laws prohibit Catholics holding high positions though it's far from clear that they'd be enforced today.

 

 

So you concede that your earlier claim to the contrary was entirely false then?

 

Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough so I'll say once again. Racism in England existed.. period.

 

As far as people moving amongst classes as you stated this possibility did not exist prior to world war 2. The class system was rigidly imposed by a person's ability to be educated at a public school and later university, their family ancestry and who they knew in the higher up social circles

 

Couldn't imagine an Irish navvy or a Billingsgate fish porter ever being able to move up into those circles no matter what their capabilities might have been

 

On the other hand many immigrants to America by hard work did move up the social ladder within a generation or two.

 

Finally the fact that Obama was able to become president given his humble background speaks volumes for the social changes in the US.

[plekhanov]

Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough so I'll say once again. Racism in England existed.. period.

Strawman, I never said it didn't, I simply pointing out just how moronic your blatantly false claims that the UK was on a par with the USA when it came to racism were.

 

As far as people moving amongst classes as you stated this possibility did not exist prior to world war 2. The class system was rigidly imposed by a person's ability to be educated at a public school and later university, their family ancestry and who they knew in the higher up social circles

And your grounds for these claims are what exactly? I get the impression you learnt all you know about Britain from costume dramas.

 

You clearly know nothing of British history (as your claims about the required religion of the PM demonstrate), there has always been movement between the classes in the UK.

 

Couldn't imagine an Irish navvy or a Billingsgate fish porter ever being able to move up into those circles no matter what their capabilities might have been

 

On the other hand many immigrants to America by hard work did move up the social ladder within a generation or two.

And of course intergenerational movement between the classes never happened in the UK

 

Finally the fact that Obama was able to become president given his humble background speaks volumes for the social changes in the US.

Humble background His parents were grad students.

 

Baracks election, clearly demonstrates that the US isn't as racist as it used to be, however all the absurd stories flying around about him being a 'secret muslim', being ineligible to be President and so forth also demonstrate that the US still has a good way to go.

[DeanoGV]

Well you've been misinformed, our current PM isn't in the CofE nor for example was Lloyd George who not only wasn't in the CofE but spent much of his early career attacking it.

 

Due to the UKs historical conflicts with Catholicism many old laws prohibit Catholics holding high positions though it's far from clear that they'd be enforce?

 

Interesting quote Plekhanov: To be more precise David Lloyd George faith was Church of the Disciples of Christ and the current P.M is Church of Scotland. D.L.G was against the hold of the English over the Welsh lands. The Church of Scotland broke away from Rome in the 19th century. Both of the above mentioned churches are protestant.

 

I would be interested for you to quote me more than two token Catholics that have held a high position in the last 100 hundred years.