geniusmum Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I am trying to research my family tree but have been unable to find any records of my great grandfather Bedford Dunmall. I have marriage and death records for my grandfather (John) Charles William Dunmall and my father, but have come to a "Brick wall" with Bedford. I just wondered if I have any long lost relatives out there who might have tracked Bedford down. Many thanks if you can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1965 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi Presumably you have your Grt Grandfathers name from your Grandfathers Marriage cert? Have you searched for a Birth Certificate for your Grandfather? This will have both his parents name on, and his mothers maiden name. It appears from FreeBMD that DUNMALL is a name dominant in the London/Kent area of England. cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geniusmum Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Yes Thanks, I got his name from the 2 marriage certs. There is no birth record for my GF as records weren't kept in the area where he was born in Kent for 10 years! So I've hit the proverbial "Brick Wall". That's why I wondered if anyone had managed to track him down. I've searched on FreeBMD, Findmypast, Ancestry, parish records, military records & passenger lists!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1965 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Yes Thanks, I got his name from the 2 marriage certs. There is no birth record for my GF as records weren't kept in the area where he was born in Kent for 10 years! So I've hit the proverbial "Brick Wall". That's why I wondered if anyone had managed to track him down. I've searched on FreeBMD, Findmypast, Ancestry, parish records, military records & passenger lists!! My Bold. Civil Registration began on 1st July 1837. An odd 1 or 2 may have slipped through the net....but certainly not 10 years worth of BMD's. I found a Mary A Dunmalls' death registered in Ecc Bier 1917 aged 46....if this is Charles Wiliams wife, I hazard a guess he was born c1870s'. There is a birth reg for March Qtr 1871 in Bromley. The other option is that he was not born in England or Wales. If you list all the info you have someone may be able to help you solve the mystery CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I am sure you have these, but for context... 1891 piece 3804 e.d.15 folio 19 184 Broomhall St (Ecclesall Bierlow) Charles W DUNMALL Head Marr 37 coachman domestic KEN St.Mary Cray Ann DUNMALL Wife Marr 35 YKS Sheffield * GRO Marriages MAR Qtr 1878 DUNMALL John Charles W Sheffield 9c 485 SMITH Ann Sheffield 9c 485 So is the following a second marriage or the next generation?... GRO Marriages JUN Qtr 1909 DUNMALL Charles William Ecclesall B 9c 760 PARSONS Mary Ann Ecclesall B. 9c 760 And yet another Charles William... GRO Births DEC Qtr 1909 DUNMALL Charles William Ecclesall B. 9c 481 Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 St Mary Cray is in Bromley R.D., so this is a possible birth: GRO Births JUN Qtr 1854 DUNMALL Male Bromley 2a 207 They were probably still arguing over John or Charles:) Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geniusmum Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Thanks everyone. I have been trying to research my paternal tree for at least 16 years! I already have the information that you have kindly posted. (John) Charles William Dunmall was born in St Mary Cray, Kent in 1853. He was married twice... firstly 4th Feb 1878 at the age of 26 (bachelor)to Anne Smith who died in 1907 aged 52 & is buried in Ecclesall All Saints churchyard. There is a daughter Mary from this marriage b.Oldham,who is only recorded on the 1901 census aged 13. I can find no other records of her. His 2nd marriage was 12th April 1909 at the age of 57 (widower)to Mary Ann Parsons who died in 1917 aged 46 and is also buried in Ecclesall. My father, also Charles William, was born in September 1909 to Mary Ann Dunmall nee Parsons and Charles William Dunmall. On his death cert of 23rd March 1932 my GF's age is given as 79 years. Therefore I have calculated that he was born in 1853. It is really his father Bedford Dunmall that I am trying to trace. I can find no information about Bedford except that he must have died sometime between 1878 and 1909 as he was recorded on Charles's 1878 marr cert and deceased on the 1909 marr cert. The Dunmall male born in March qtr 1871 in Bromley is also recorded in the deaths a little while later I have been informed by a very reliable Dunmall relative that there are no records from the St Mary Cray, Chelsfield area for 10 years! So I think I have come to a full stop. I would be very grateful if you can find him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I have been informed by a very reliable Dunmall relative that there are no records from the St Mary Cray, Chelsfield area for 10 years! So I think I have come to a full stop. Is it possible they are refering to the parish registers? It is quite easy to show that this is not true of the civil registration records... In a search of the 1861 census at Ancestry I found 27 children born in St Mary Cray c1853. I then looked for them in the GRO Birth Index and found the great majority of them listed in Bromley R.D. So I don't think there is a problem with those records. In fact I can't see a problem, apart from the fact that I can't find Charles or Bedford, with the parish registers, which have been transcribed: St Mary Cray Parish. There are plenty of Dunmalls and variants in those records, some of them in the 1850's. he must have died sometime between 1878 and 1909 as he was recorded on Charles's 1878 marr cert and deceased on the 1909 marr cert The fact that he was not recorded as deceased in 1878 does not necessarily mean that he wasn't - unless he was a witness? Which church or churches did Charles get married in? Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 ...and my apologies for my poor memory - I had completely forgotten that we had discussed this family earlier this year on the Sheffield FHS site: Dunmall thread Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geniusmum Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Thanks Hugh, I have just trawled through all the available records for St Mary Cray &, like you, cannot find John Charles William or anyone with the forename or surname of Bedford. If either of them were ******** should they still be in the birth records? I would have thought so tho' not in the baptism/christenings. I am beginning to wonder if either of them came from St Pauls or Foot's Cray or even Chelsfield originally. Have you any ideas please? Bedford wasn't a witness to either of the marriages, & I can't link the witnesses to either Charles, Ann Smith or Mary Ann Parsons as yet. Yes, I think you tried to help me on the FHS site last year. Thank you very much for your patience. I am trying on this site in case there might be any Dunmall's out there who might have found my elusive relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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