Yog Sothoth Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Take no notice. Alchresearch is one of SF's full time antagonisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Jeez! ... just read the whole thread in one go! It was unputdownable! Lots of luvvie from Alco Farquhair-simpleton Blog X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Lady Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Only just noticed your post. I think posting anonymously and claiming to know someone is slightly sinister. Anyone I respect IRL would never post about me anonymously on a forum. If you want your words to have any significance then post your full name and job title, then I'll confirm whether you know me or not. Until then, you're just another anonymous poster. You've forgotten me. I'm heartbroken. I'm sorry, I thought you knew who I was on here: I didn't intend to be stalkerish or sinister, and I'm far from anonymous as I link to my blog in my signature, and often sign off with my own name. Let me remind you who I am. My name is Jane Smith, and our sons went to the same primary school; we've talked on several occasions about writing, publishing AND my blog (see the link in my signature); and we've talked about the peafowl I used to keep and once, when our boys were still in infant school, you gave me a beautiful blouse with a peacock print all over it which I have now sadly outgrown. I can't give you my job title because I've worked as a freelancer for so long now I don't have one. I've worked in publishing--that's trade publishing, not self-publishing or vanity publishing--for nearly thirty years; I've written over 20 books which have all been published, and a few more which haven't; my articles have appeared in newspapers including the Sunday Times, the Mail, the Daily Express, and The Guardian; and in various magazines from Country Smallholding to Woman And Home. There. I hope you feel a little less worried about who I am now, and are prepared to consider my comments more seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the white rose Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm sorry, I thought you knew who I was on here: Didn't have a scooby. I know now though you gave me a beautiful blouse with a peacock print all over it That's right, I did! that's trade publishing, not self-publishing or vanity publishing ...if you're still clinging to the traditional "old publishing" notion that self-publishing is somehow inferior, maybe you'd find this article interesting. 2010: The Year Self-Publishing Lost Its Stigma. And here's a list of authors who have self-published, and self-published books: Remembrance of things Past, by Marcel Proust Ulysses, by James Joyce The Adventures of Peter Rabbit, by Beatrix Potter A Time to Kill, by John Grisham The Wealthy Barber, by David Chilton The Bridges of Madison County The Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield OTHER FAMOUS AUTHORS WHO SELF-PUBLISHED Deepak Chopra Gertrude Stein Zane Grey Upton Sinclair Carl Sandburg Ezra Pound Mark Twain Edgar Rice Burroughs Stephen Crane Bernard Shaw Anais Nin Thomas Paine Virginia Wolff e.e. Cummings Edgar Allen Poe Rudyard Kipling Henry David Thoreau Benjamin Franklin Walt Whitman Alexandre Dumas William E.B. DuBois Beatrix Potter Worthy of note is also the fact that during his entire lifetime, Herman Melville's timeless classic, Moby Dick, sold only 3,715 copies. There's also an article here about e-publishing: Controversial Book Rejected By Publishers Becomes An Online Sensation Due to demand from my fans, all our titles will soon be e-published and available on Kindle, ipad, ipod, iphone etc. My third novel, Drowning, is with my editor at the moment awaiting rewrites and will be published this summer, and in the meantime I'm writing our fourth title, a novella to be published this spring if all goes well, working title "Chapter 9" (I don't want to reveal the title just yet.) My fanpage is at http://www.facebook.com/judecalverttoulmin and has over 200 fans, and My Adventures in Cyberspace has started attracting rave reviews on Amazon from all over the world. Whatever happens, this is an exciting ride and I'm really enjoying it! One of the best things to happen now is that other writers and indie publishers approach me for advice; encouraging them and supporting them in this brave new world of publishing gives me enormous pleasure. We live in exciting times Jane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Lady Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Didn't have a scooby. I know now though Sorry, Jude, I really thought you knew who I was here. Otherwise I'd have introduced myself properly. *waves happily* ...if you're still clinging to the traditional "old publishing" notion that self-publishing is somehow inferior, maybe you'd find this article interesting. 2010: The Year Self-Publishing Lost Its Stigma. The big stigma which has always affected self publishing, and which continues to do so, is that most self published books are (with all due respect) very bad indeed. I've reviewed a hundred or more--I have a review blog where I only look at self published books--and have only been able to recommend a tiny handful of them. Writers who have written a good book, and who self publish properly, have to struggle to separate themselves from that crowd. Some manage it: some do not. And here's a list of authors who have self-published, and self-published books: Your list isn't accurate, I'm afraid; and where it is accurate, it's lacking in context. Proust's Remembrance Of Things Past runs to seven (I think) volumes, and only the first was self published in France: all subsequent volumes were published by a trade publisher. I don't think it was ever self-published in translation, which accounts for most of its sales. Ulysses, by James Joyce, wasn't self-published: it was published in serial form in an American literary journal (again, this is all off the top of my head so please forgive me if I get some of this wrong), and then published by a small independent press operating out of Paris. The Adventures of Peter Rabbit, by Beatrix Potter was self-published--but that was over 100 years ago, and publishing has changed hugely since then. A Time to Kill, by John Grisham was never self published despite Dan Poynter and others insisting that it was. I've never heard of The Wealthy Barber, by David Chilton: but Amazon informs me that its UK edition was published by Boxtree. I think that Waller's The Bridges of Madison County and Refield's The Celestine Prophecy were both self published originally: but as far as I know neither became best sellers until they were picked up by trade publishers. As for your other authors: I don't know them all, but this is what I do know about them. Ezra Pound wrote poetry. Poets have always self published; it's how poetry works. That Pound self published is not exceptional, nor does it endorse self publishing as a route for other writers. Mark Twain's self publication was so costly that it almost bankrupted him. In order to pay his debts he undertook a lecture tour that nearly killed him. Again, not the most brilliant of endorsements for self publishing. Edgar Rice Burroughs was already a successful short story writer by the time Tarzan was published by a trade publisher. It did very well indeed, as did his subsequent novels; and it was only when ERB had a big following, and his rights in his earlier books began to revert to him, that he self-published. Virginia Woolf wasn't self published: her books were published by a commercial imprint which her husband ran, which had great success with other writers too. e.e. Cummings, Walt Whitman POETRY AGAIN! Lovely though her books are, we dealt with Beatrix Potter before. I think you found that list here; thanks is given to Dan Poynter's parapublishing website for the information. Mr Poynter makes his living by selling books about self publishing to writers who are interested in self publishing. His site is notoriously full of errors and misinformation about trade publishing, and who has self published: he isn't a good source if you want to find reliable information. Worthy of note is also the fact that during his entire lifetime, Herman Melville's timeless classic, Moby Dick, sold only 3,715 copies. Also worthy of note is that the average self-published book sells only 200 copies, or fewer than 40 copies, depending which figures you prefer to work with. And no, that low figure isn't because few self published books get counted by Nielsen. Compare that to the sales figures of a New York Times best seller, or those of two friends of mine who had books published via respected trade publishers this year: in their first week of publication, their novels sold 2,500 copies and 2,800 copies. There's also an article here about e-publishing: Controversial Book Rejected By Publishers Becomes An Online Sensation From that article: At its highest chart position it reached number three in the serial killer section of Amazon’s Bestsellers and number 63 in the crime, thrillers and mystery chart – above some Dean Koontz titles. That was only on the Kindle charts, though, which are incredibly easy to manipulate. A friend of mine got her new release up to number three in her genre, and number 27 in all, with one day of dedicated tweeting. It means very little, and certainly doesn't imply that the book sold in high volumes. A single sale can make a book leap like a gazelle up the genre Kindle charts. Here's another interesting article about what can happen to authors who self-publish on the Kindle. My fanpage is at http://www.facebook.com/judecalverttoulmin and has over 200 fans, and My Adventures in Cyberspace has started attracting rave reviews on Amazon from all over the world. Whatever happens, this is an exciting ride and I'm really enjoying it! It sounds like you're really enjoying yourself, and that's fabulous. I'm really pleased for you, and hope your success continues. One of the best things to happen now is that other writers and indie publishers approach me for advice; encouraging them and supporting them in this brave new world of publishing gives me enormous pleasure. We live in exciting times Jane! We do indeed live in exciting times; and it's great when that sort of support network develops; but please be careful about the advice that you give out, because the blog post of yours that I linked to before is very flawed, as are many of the other assertions you've made about publishing. I know you well enough to know that you wouldn't mislead people on purpose--quite the opposite, in fact; I've always admired you for being so honest and up-front with people, often at the risk of exposing yourself in all sorts of ways. Just be wary of the "information" that you read online, especially when it comes from the more evangelical side of self publishing. You've already fallen for some of it (for example, the claims that John Grisham et al self published); do take more care. Or you could lose money, or worse, the rights to your work. And let me know if I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The big stigma which has always affected self publishing, and which continues to do so, is that most self published books are (with all due respect) very bad indeed. Well, this we CAN agree on, and it's this sheer level of (lack of) quality that casts doubt on the whole self publishing industry. I can't count the number of times I've been sent a self published book that lacks structure or content - and that's ignoring the obvious lack of editing, and, in most cases, a complete inability to actually write. Just because you can self publish doesn't always mean you should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcake Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well, this we CAN agree on, and it's this sheer level of (lack of) quality that casts doubt on the whole self publishing industry. I can't count the number of times I've been sent a self published book that lacks structure or content - and that's ignoring the obvious lack of editing, and, in most cases, a complete inability to actually write. Just because you can self publish doesn't always mean you should! Just because someone tells you, you shouldn't doesn't mean you should listen. What a lot of negative people. Yes self publishing and vanity publishing has been rotten in the past but that doesn't mean there aren't any good ones in there. The same for lots of publishing houses, they spew out some rubbish too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Just because someone tells you, you shouldn't doesn't mean you should listen. What a lot of negative people. Yes self publishing and vanity publishing has been rotten in the past but that doesn't mean there aren't any good ones in there. The same for lots of publishing houses, they spew out some rubbish too Oh crikey - I'm far Far FAR from the belief that people shouldn't try to self publish (I was really just agreeing with Peacock rather than giving a more rounded opinion). This vaguely negative comment from me is not at ALL what I think of self publishing; what I loathe is all the hyperbole and exaggeration self publishers use - getting their friends to post five star reviews on key websites when it would be better just letting it sell itself on its own merits and letting reviews genuinely collect without aunts and uncles posting their comments (I am NOT saying that was done with Fleur De Lys books, by the way - this is a general rant on self publishing). However, that said, it's things like Fleur de Lys saying her company is a publishing house, when it is most certainly not. If she took on a few other authors, then maybe she'd be able to call her company a publishing house - and *that* to me, is the issue: you can't take anything at face value as it's all smoke and mirrors and you buy books thinking they're going to be a great read (due to the comments on Amazon) and many of them turn out to be poorly edited nonsense (again, not a criticism of FdL's books). On a more positive issue: look at N.G. Naylor (he lives up the road - I'm sort of stalking him) - he self published his book - Secrets of Hightower - was a runner up in a Sheffield childrens' competition. So whether the literati like it, the kids clearly did! So, he's on the right path and needs to keep going... I totally think you should believe in yourself and make the effort. After Harry Potter was overlooked by all the major publishers, it just goes to show the system doesn't work! So keep on trying If you really want to promote your books, then get them off to professionals - let magazines and book reviewers make their comments and see where that gets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordChaverly Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Most people have a book inside them somewhere and in most cases this is precisely where it should stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeG Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Another sale - I've just ordered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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