Lotusflower Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Actually, having just been all righteous up there, I've just remembered that my brother got several jobs after he'd finished university without a degree certificate to back up his claims. He failed to pay his tuition fees in his last year, so techincally he didn't gain his degree until he'd settled the debt - two very well-paying jobs later. Ho hum. I also know someone who told me that she'd earned hundreds of pounds a time for writing essays for a website that sold them. A very small nasty part of me wishes I could have done that, back when I was working 25 hours a week to pay my way through uni. Imagine having the rent money after a day's work. Slippery slope Jessica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Total opposite for me. I could quite easily live with the knowledge that Im a 'dubious human being'. If I could make life easier by cheating in this way, then I would. Although it's too late now as I already have my degree, but in hindsight, if the option was there, and I knew I would get away with it, then why not. No harm in giving my family a better life. Another point, is that surely it is down to the employer to employ a suitable person for the job anyway. The degree should only supplement the applicants qualities. And if after cheating their way into the job they can't perform, they will soon be found out, if they perform, then both they and the company are winners. But you would never know if you'd continue to get away with it forever, would you? It would be hanging over you at every job change. As for giving your family a better life - spurious nonsense. Not only does a degree, fake or otherwise, not guarantee a well-paying job, but surely your family would be better off learning that cheating and lying is not an admirable thing to do?* *Oh look, I've come over all idealistic again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxforcefive Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I think on the other end of the spectrum, if the guy referred to in the OP is good at his job and his employers are happy, why do his employers feel the need to only recruit a graduate when it is obviously a job a non-graduate can do well. This is why people feel the need to commit fraud to get a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Slippery slope Jessica. I know, I know. Very small, very nasty, rigidly suppressed part of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenfleece Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Yes I was just drawing attention to the fact there appeared, from listening to the conservation, that no central database exists for employers to check up on their employees certificates.....should there not be the equivalent of the DVLA and an accessible facility to see if someone really does have the degree and the grade they are claiming? I think at the moment it appears that employers can only telephone the University and after spending ages going through switchboards, either confirm or otherwise with the academic department secretary, or the Awards Office....but then apparently, there is some data protection issue and Universities will refuse to confirm degrees or otherwise for fear of breaching data protection....after all anyone could ring up and pretend to be an employer seeking personal info about a former student...... I agree the whole student experience is paramount..I am not condoning any such activity, I comment on it as I was not aware of it until I heard this conversation. If I saw a degree certificate I would not have a clue if it was genuine or not...I have my own History of Art and Film 2:1 degree (2004) from Sheff Hallam, (no comments as to the real value of this though please!!) but it does not look anything special or hard to duplicate....its just a printed bit of paper in a frame...perhaps they should be laminated watermarked and very secure ID cards with pictures, a bit more like a driving licence or passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchdaride Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 But you would never know if you'd continue to get away with it forever, would you? It would be hanging over you at every job change. As for giving your family a better life - spurious nonsense. Not only does a degree, fake or otherwise, not guarantee a well-paying job, but surely your family would be better off learning that cheating and lying is not an admirable thing to do?* *Oh look, I've come over all idealistic again lol. This is why I said I would if I KNEW I could get away with it, but as you say, there are no guarantees. And I also know that it does not guarantee a well paid job, but there are certain jobs that you have absolutely no chance of getting without a degree. No it's not nonsense... I want my family to realise that it's a dog eat dog world out there, and people don't hold hands across the globe singing hyms and running through daisies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savbaby Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I think on the other end of the spectrum, if the guy referred to in the OP is good at his job and his employers are happy, why do his employers feel the need to only recruit a graduate when it is obviously a job a non-graduate can do well. This is why people feel the need to commit fraud to get a job. I worked for a large retail company and they had to hire a certain amount of post graduates, think it was a government scheme or something. they may have got a tax break for it. It cause no end of problems as they had to be trained in everything and we found when it came to tills and cleaning and stuff they had to be shown everything loads of times(no common sense!) When it came to the paperwork side they were spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I should add that I don't have any way to prove I earned my undergraduate degree, since I accidentally put it in the blue bin with the rest of the paper recycling. They charge £20 for a replacement Sod that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Rock Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Employers as a rule enforce a probation period for any new member of staff, so if what they've said they can do isn't the case, then they can be released. References go a long way to say whether or not someone can do the job. All a degree shows is that a person has the capability of analysing, evaluating and dealing with complex subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 If I saw a degree certificate I would not have a clue if it was genuine or not...I have my own History of Art and Film 2:1 degree (2004) from Sheff Hallam, (no comments as to the real value of this though please!!) but it does not look anything special or hard to duplicate....its just a printed bit of paper in a frame...perhaps they should be laminated watermarked and very secure ID cards with pictures, a bit more like a driving licence or passport? Mine, 2005, was watermarked - maybe that's something that's come in recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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