A good Karate school in Sheffield

[GKR sdc]

some real info to give you a real insight we are not all idiots. Just a select few:rant:

 

From the get go I hated the selling, HATED it, but saw it as a necessary evil for me to do martial arts full time. I was never good at selling, I never pushed anyone, I rarely closed on people - I managed to stay alive in the organisation by making friends with all the instructors and getting referrals for people who already wanted to join. And still I hated it. And the management hated me, they saw me as the perennial underachiever. Everyone got better figures than me, cos I refused to use their "formula" of pushing people.

I saw people come and go, with the same ideas as me, all good people. GKR are not evil, just some of them are greedy, and the rest get dragged by the current. In a sense that is what I let myself do - go with the flow. I AM ashamed.

After a long time (18 months as an SDC), I built the courage to get out. This was tuff for me, because instead of a year and a half of earning, I had actually acrued debt, and I left GKR to no job, no prospects. I think this is the second best decision I have ever made.

 

 

History.

 

A lot of people have questioned where Kancho Robert Sullivan (or Aussie Bob, as I shall refer to him) came from. Most of this info you can get from their site, or in their magazine. I'll try to be exact if I can, but I really can't remember specific details.

 

Aussie Bob started out in the Police force - not a copper, he worked in the office I believe. He casually trained in some judo as a teen, then got interested in Karate. His first class was over 1 hour from where he lived, and he travelled there 3 times per week.

He studied Goju (Kai, I think) for a number of years. I don't know the details of him switching to the Shotokan style, but he did travel a lot to study it. he lived in Japan for approx 12 months, and spent a lot of time in Malaysia. Sorry I can't give you any more info than this, and this is the official story - I wouldn't be able to answer any questions about authenticity of claims.

 

He lived in Callifornia for a few years, and had some show on cable TV (or was a regular guest or something along those lines) Teaching the shotokan style he did.

 

He started his first school in Adelaide australia. The class constisted of Aussie bob as sensei, Matthew sullivan as student. HA. Then he got a new student, and it basically stayed that way for a while. It's called Bob's Karate school, but I'm pretty sure he always intended to include the "aussie" prefix.

 

When it came time for it to become a registered club, he contacted Tino Ceberano of Goju Kai and it was agreed that the school would come under the Goju Kai banner. After that, for some reason Aussie Bob fell out of contact with Goju Kai and became an independent club. They had quite a lot of success in tournaments, and for "personality clash" reasons (official line), were denied entry into the governing body in South Australia at the time.

 

In 84, Go Kan Ryu became the official name of the club. The club stayed this way for about 8 years - very small, still competing well.

 

92 was the start of the big push with their direct marketing system. in 92 the club had 800 student. in 2004 the club had 42000 students.

Note: student numbers are based on a average weekly class attendance over a period of 2 months.

 

The UK is the largest growing area for GKR, going from 5000 students in 99 to 18000 in 2004.

 

The US opened in late 2003. When I left they had one "Honbu" dojo in Houston, with 3 more in construction, all in Houston.

 

Aussie Bob

 

He's not evil, just greedy. He has been a businessman for a long time, and has been successful long before GKR. He was part of some canadian direct selling organisation, (similar to amway), and topped the Aus, then world selling lists for the company in 2 years. this was the basis for his ideas with GKR.

I've met him on 4 occasions, trained with him twice. He is a pretty capable martial artist. He is 57 or so now, and has had bowel cancer, so he's slowing down, but he is still very strong and relatively fast. His form is technically pretty good.

The helicopter. I've heard a lot of people laugh about it. He actually does not own a helicopter. He did own one in the nineties, and he is a registered pilot. the heilicoptor was bought with wealth made from prior enterprises.

The Rolls, the boats and the ridiculous jewelery are still around tho...

 

The Black Belts.

 

GKR tells people they can be a black belt in 4 years. This is really only possible if you are a gifted athlete and train 3-4 times per week. To get to black belt in GKR is extremely difficult. So any GKR blackbelts getting around you can be assured that they are very very good at GKR. They introduce a lot more techniques and principles to the style once you reach black belt. I've heard various other former-gkr folks say that it's policy to not award a blackbelt untill the RM is positive that the student won't leave gkr. Not sure how that would work, but sounds like gkr to me.

 

Self Defence.

 

other than punch kick and maybe block, there is no practical self defence taught in regular classes. They do hold "Super Seminars" to focus on things like that, but it is usually very very simplistic.

 

The Basics

their Kihon is extremely basic. any karateka would recognise them. It seemed to me as though they have cut out any techniques that might be considered slightly difficult. Their stances are all l long and low, they use a combination of aspects from Shotokan and Goju, which is sometimes awkward.

 

Non Contact.

This is what it is called, in reality it is light contact, and even then, there is a lot of discretion left up to the students. head shots are always frowned upon, and in any formal situation (tournaments, displays, seminars, sessions involving guest instructors), contact is frowned upon.

 

Tournaments.

In Aus, as has been said, they dominate. This can largely be attributed to sheer numbers (enter 100 people, surely one of them will win). NAS is actually quite highly regarded by some (not me), and clubs from all styles get involded, including full contact clubs (eg Kenshinkan).

There are a few rare individuals that have been sent to compete in Japan in full contact tournaments (Anthony Ryan, Glenn Hutchison, some young guys). This is not well known. I think Aussie Bob is hoping they do well, then will announce to the world that GKR is the ultimate. On the first 2 attempts, the best finish has been middle of the pack.

 

Kata. I don't know enough about traditional karate to comment on why or why not their choices work. They do feel a bit out of order, and the progrssion goes up and down a bit. I find Bassai Dai extremely hard to perform well, yet its the 4th kata in... I'm sure some other folks here can explain why their choices are terrible. however, I am sure a gkr BB could give reasons why their choice works. I don't care tho, I don't do it anymore.

 

Marketing.

It is a tried and true system. Many industries use it.

Martial arts is an industry, and they are employing methods that work. A LOT of people react positively to being visited in their home. personally, I couldn't care either way - if a GKR man came to my door, I would say no straight up, which is probably why I could never sell much when I was there.

 

Everything they do is perfectly legal. IWhile I have encountered the odd rumour or story of dodgy dealing in GKR, generally they keep a tight reign on everything.

 

Their system is pushy. It involves scripts, which is why inexperienced people can do it. Does you local petrol shop attendant know EXACLT how fuel is refined? It's no different. The newbies just read the script, ask the questions and all the information is presented in a folder. It is quite simple.

They have a lot of objection scripts to deal with people who say no, and these were a bit to much for me, I didn't use them. but I have seen others use them.

 

 

I am one of those evil people that got my own Dojo as an Orange belt. (7th kyu). I did not want it, I was thrown into the fray to replace a brown belt. Lucky me. However, I ran one of the best classes in my region. In reality, the black and white simply means that person is the manager of the dojo - I do not have to teach the class. So as I mentioned, I became friends with many other instructors, and I regularly had Black and brown belt visit to instruct my class. I would take the bow in, with black belt as sensei, myself as sempai. This worked well, and my clas became extremely popular, I had people driving from the opposite side of the city to train at my class.

Not all GKR people are crap or evil.

With that said, I confirm and agree that there are far too many lowere grades teaching, and that this is unacceptable.

I also taught hapkido based self defence in my class to give my students more. Yes, if the RM knew, my ass would have been in grave danger.

 

My region was perhaps better than most. It is the largest region in GKR (by a long way), had the largest student base, and consistently produced good karate. It is quite well known the GKR from the southern states of Australia and from the UK are considered to be substandard.

In Australia there are actually many BB. It may be different in UK, not sure.

 

Training Fees

GKR is relatively cheap in Aus. compared to most other clubs (and I have checked this extensively), they beat on training costs by about 40%. There are cheaper clubs, they are just hard to find. A GKR grading is $25. this is a pittance when compared to some clubs charging between $150 and $400 a grading.

The rip off begins with equipment. they have their own brand manufactured (IGKF Dojo Gear) and it is of a VERY low quality. I now work in the equipment industry, so I know bad quality, and DG is bad. Yet they are charging the same or more as any martial arts store. And technically you have to wear DG stuff.

 

The RMs

These guys.... These are the guys that really anger people. My RM had one goal - get as much money in his pocket as possible, and who cares about ******* people off. He hated me, because I didn't like pushing people - less money in his pocket. he hated me too because I was educated, and found fault in lots of his "logic". that didn't go down well.

RMs are the bottom rung of GKR employment. Generally they are uneducated, come from sales/business background and a lot of them have prior martial arts experience. Contrary to their adds, not just anyone makes it to RM.

To be honest, I don't know what you have to do to make RM in GKR - I know many people who did everything that was asked of them for 4 years,and still didn't make it.

RMs are very good at conversing. They spend a lot of moeny and time going to seminars and courses (think Tony Robbins, Kyosaki). They are very charismatic. people don't like them, but they just can't help doing what the RM asks. It's hard to explain, but you often hear similar things said about wierd cult leaders....

My RM was on a base of Aus$35 000. Bonuses come for seilling equip, increasing numbers, so on and so forth.

When I left, my RM was on about Aus$180 000, with an attendance of 1900. this has dropped since i've left, so probably about Aus$140 000 now (low attendance, haha)

 

Zone Directors are the next step up, there are 2 in aus, one in NZ, one in US, and about 5 in the UK. These guys are on serious money - think about Aus$450 000. I know the UK guys earn more, because of the way its structured there.

 

There is one IVP, with 2 more on the way. IVP is on about 800 - 900

 

Stacey Karetsian is the Vice Chairman thingy, and the leader of the organisation. It's unlear what his cut it.

 

Aussie Bob is not very active these days, but rakes in all the money. Again, it's unclear what he gets, but a definite figure is Aus$4.5 Million in 99. this will probably have doubled, maybe tripled since then with more students, and more efficient business practices. We'll say bout 10 mil. per year.

 

Gkr management love material wealth, if you ever meet them you will agree.

 

Insurance.

 

This has been raised a few times... GKR has everything happening in the dojo insured under one banner. I don't know specifics or how insurance works legally, but their plan will cover anything up to a 10 million dollar lawsuit.

 

SDCs.

These are the poor guys at the bottom. I was one.

They are not employed by GKR, rather, subcontracted. Hence, no benefits, and completely performance based income. The "registration" that people pay to get started is really only to cover the cost of the card, technically. There are no contracts btw, so it isn't like a lot of clubs that will take money from your account for a year, whether you train or not (now that is kinda nasty I think).

most SDCs are poor, have not many prospects, and dumb. Generally, there are 2 types - young and super keen for martial arts and stupid and naive, with no real job prospects, or old and super crafty, uneducated and keen for money.

The idea behind the SDC is to weed out people - it is a period of tough living to "harden" you or whatever. The selling is tuff, and the training is tuffer.

The SDC training by the way is extremely hard. Non contact is for the public dojos, full timers do the lot. I think the worst session I ever did was a conditioning session where we had to tense and take full strength body kicks on and off for 90 minutes. Not just from other students, but from the RM and black belts as well. GKR full times do it every day, all year. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking they are cream puffs that can't fight.

 

Of the wealth that comes out of the club, none of it goes back in, it all just keeps getting sucked out.

 

Most regions have about 10% drop out rate or higher.

 

 

GKR actually does have a working relationship with Goju Kai in Japan. Each year, they send Aussie Bob, and the "top instructors" (the guys who sell the most), to japan to train with some "top guys". It's never specified who they japanese top guys are, so it's kinda hard to swallow.

 

I still have many friends doing GKR, and they will stay with GKR. I left not because of the karate, but because of the lies and the greed and the manipulative personalities, I had to get out. I go back to train with them sometimes, because they let me train in their classes for free (umbrella insurance remember. But the RM would be ******), and the students from my regions still contact me to say hi. GKR in australia produces some reasonable karateka. I will never talk to my former RM again, I don't return his calls.

I'm sure the uproar about their kata is rational - Aussie Bob even invented his own, then ditched it a few years later. The rest tho is sound karate. As mentioned, I work now in the industy, and I have made a point of checking out as many dojo as possible. I have seen some classes of very well known styles, and I am disgusted. Absolutely terrible. I can see why my friends stay with GKR.

 

And as for all the comments obout "we had a guy with us who was apparently good at gkr and we all kicked his butt" - that may be so, but one guy does not represent GKR.

I train in WTF and Judo now, and in WTF, the only people in the entire club who have bested me in sparring is the Cheif instructor and a 2nd Dan. I attribute a lot of my current ability to GKR.

 

 

I'm positive I have forgotten a fair bit. Will try to add more if I remember it.

 

 

GKR students and instructors are just like you and me - a lot of them love martial arts, and enjoy the good feeling that you get when associating with others of the same ilk.

GKR karate is very simple and easy to learn, creates some good karateka.

 

I hope this helps the all to easy to pick on GKR we have a niche andwe fill it

[Protekt]

What you have posted, we all know already.

The big lie starts with the name of the sales team " Self Defence Consultant" what utter rubbish . It is a name designed to fool the public into believing that GKR can help them on the streets its a con and a very dangerous con, making people over confident.

For example, Peter Consterdine 8th dan, former GB international and full contact fighter is one of the first to admit traditional martial arts have a very limited application on the streets. That is why he co-formed the British Combat association with Geoff Thompson.

Any organisation that takes peoples money for a tuition by a orange belt is ripping people off.FACT

Using Sheffield as an example, there are several 5th dan and above instructors in the city that charge less than GKR do per class.

Anybody that think they have the ability to teach at that grade is wrong.FACT.

You say you saw GKR as a way to do martial arts full time. Why not do it the way most club or school owners have....years of hard work !!

The truth is among the main stream martial arts community GKR is a bad joke and treated with contempt. No amount of explanations will ever change that.

[TN72]

My daughter has been going to a Karate club in hillsborough since she was 6 .... now a black belt and instructer Bob Hague is fantastic... its on calton rd at the church ... check out sheffield shotokan he does adult and kids .......... EXCELLENT

[madhappy]

try Concord Sports centre, Hillsborough Leisure Centre, Ponds Forge or EISS. I only because my dad teaches!

[boy-z]

I go the karate session at Hillsborough Leisure centre on a Friday night

[Katie lefty]

I go to Taekwondo at EIS on a Saturday morning. You can go as a family or on your own its a great way to recover from the night before. There's also diffrent Martial Arts every day of the week at EIS so theres lots to chose from.

[rkelly]

what about excel martial arts at sam jones

[KillerBJJ]

Listen. You don't want to learn karate. You watched Karate Kid 20 years ago, but martial arts has moved on. It's a childhood fantasy.

 

Learn something useful: plumbing, joinery, electrics. Failing that, BJJ, thai boxing or (serious) judo.

 

If you're after BJJ, you'll know where to find us.

[kel-lou]

My daughter attends a karate class in the church on Southey Rise. Its on a monday and Thursday 7pm until 8pm for beginners and the older and more experienced trainees attend from 8.30pm

 

Pop along and speak to Sue or Ron, 1st session is free. My daughter is 8 and thouroughly enjoys the classes.

 

HTH

[Horus]

Anyone train at the shimeijurasan dojo? I've been wanting to join a Shotokan club for ages and this dojo trains when it doesn't clash with BJJ and wrestling. I trained in Liverpool for near 15 years and have kept up my training but not within a club as I've been focussing on BJJ and every karate club seems to clash with nights at the Forge.

 

If anyone trains I'd like to know what it's like?

 

Cheers