Could it become illegal to criticise religion, and Islam in particular?

[Grahame]

Do you see yourself as the handicapped classmate Grahame?

 

And no, the words were not spoken by Jesus about people who were 'spiritually blind', whatever that means, they were in fact nothing more than a cheap jibe aimed at people who disagreed with him - people who could see through him. And yes, I think it is funny!

 

Yes, I do in a way and it is people like you who are the handicap.

 

.

[John1954]

The blind leading the blind was what Jesus said when he was talking about people like you. This is what he said :

 

Can the blind lead the blind? Shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

The answer is yes, they will fall into the ditch of course.

 

You need to keep a clear head.

 

It is very doubtful that Jesus existed so it is even more doubtful that you can come up with a Jesus quote.

 

No matter how many times it is pointed out to you that there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus you continue to quote him as if he was real.

 

Jesus probably never existed. There is no evidence for his existence. Accept it. Stop posting bull**** bible claims and move into the twentyfirst century.

[Grahame]

It is very doubtful that Jesus existed so it is even more doubtful that you can come up with a Jesus quote.

 

No matter how many times it is pointed out to you that there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus you continue to quote him as if he was real.

 

Jesus probably never existed. There is no evidence for his existence. Accept it. Stop posting bull**** bible claims and move into the twentyfirst century.

 

Testimony from the Romans

Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 56-120) was a Roman senator, consul and governor of the Roman province of Anatolia (covering most of modern-day Turkey) as well as one of ancient Rome's greatest historians. Late in his life he wrote a 16-volume history of the Roman emperors, the Annals.

 

 

No friend to either Nero or Christians, Tacitus writes that Nero blamed "a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace." He goes on to explain that "Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hand of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome ..." (Annals, 15:44, quoted by Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ, 1998, p. 82).

 

 

A contemporary of Tacitus, Caius Suetonius Tranquillus (ca. 69-140), overseer of Rome's libraries and court official to several emperors, writes that the emperor Claudius "banished the Jews from Rome, who were continually making disturbances, Chrestus [Christ] being their leader" (Lives of the First Twelve Caesars: Life of Claudius, quoted by Grant Jeffrey, Jesus: The Great Debate, 1999, p. 163). This banishment of Jews from Rome is mentioned in Acts 18:2.

Also,

 

 

"Pliny the younger, the Roman legate of Bithynia-Pontus (what is now north-central Turkey) in the early second century, wrote to the emperor Trajan, requesting advice on how to deal with Christians who refused to reverence Caesar's image. Pliny noted that these Christians met regularly and sang hymns 'to Christ as if to a god' (Letters 10:96.7). The phrase 'as if to a God' suggests that Pliny knew Jesus had been a person who had lived on earth but was reluctant to call him divine" (Craig Blomberg, The Historical Reliability of the Gospels, 1987, p. 196).

 

 

From these historical sources, none connected in any way with the Bible, we see references to these facts:

• A group called "Christians" derived its name from "Christus" (Christ).

 

• This "Christus" was executed during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of Pontius Pilate (Tiberius reigned A.D. 14-37; Pilate held office from 26 to 36 or 37).

 

• This new movement involved "a most mischievous superstition," quite possibly a reference to Christians' belief that Jesus rose from the dead after His crucifixion.

 

• This new movement begun by Christians began in Judea and spread to Rome.

 

• Early Christians considered Christ to be a divine Being.

 

Testimony from Josephus

Flavius Josephus, a prominent Jewish historian of the first century, is well known to historians and scholars. Born into a priestly family in A.D. 37, Josephus was well educated and commanded a Jewish detachment in Galilee during the Jewish revolt of 66-70 until his capture by the Romans. At the end of the war he went to Rome with the Roman general Titus, where he lived and wrote until his death about A.D. 100.

 

Josephus twice mentions Jesus in his monumental work Antiquities of the Jews, written A.D. 90-95. His most extensive quote reads:

"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,—a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day" (Antiquities, Book 18, chapter 3, section 3).

 

While many scholars dispute parts or all of the passage, it is quoted as above by the historian Eusebius as early as 315.

 

A second mention of Jesus by Josephus is seldom disputed by scholars. It concerns the martyrdom of James, His half brother: "Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others [or some of his companions;] and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned ..." (Antiquities, 20:9:1).

 

Another prominent figure from the Gospels mentioned by Josephus is John the Baptizer: "Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion,...thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause...Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod's suspicious temper, to Macherus,...and was there put to death" (Antiquities, 18:5:2).

 

Although Josephus was never a Christian, in his works we find mention of many other figures from the Gospels and other New Testament books. These include the family of the Herods; the Judean procurators and members of the high priestly families. His books, like the writings of the Roman historians and officials, provide powerful independent corroboration of the historical accuracy of the Gospels and the existence of Jesus Christ.

 

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/JC/dieandlive_sources.htm

[Grahame]

John.

 

There is an answer, and that is for all atheists to stop criticising Christianity and then I won't need to respond.

 

I am not saying it should be illegal to criticise religion but I do think there should be a requirement to get your facts right and produce the source material.

 

And Pop songs do not constitute evidence, apart from evidence of delusion on the part of atheists who really do need to keep a clear head.

 

I am a Christian. Get used to it.

 

And remember John, I will not be bullied or belittled and don't you forget it.

.

[coopster1974]

Jesus was real and so was Muhamed, I'm not sure about Allah though.

prove it. people die and are willing to die all in the name of religion. What a load of rubbish.

[Grahame]

prove it. people die and are willing to die all in the name of religion. What a load of rubbish.

 

Prove what?

[ALZYMER]

Dear Grahame, You've got more staying power than me mate. As our Lord Jesus said in his sermon on the mount, actually I'll paraphrase it: 'If they don't want to listen, walk away, knock the dust off your feet and sod em! Yes! I'm a Christian, but I'm a work in progress.

 

King James version

Matt 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15.Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city

 

New American Standard version

Matt 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

15."Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

[Berlin]

John.

 

I am not saying it should be illegal to criticise religion but I do think there should be a requirement to get your facts right and produce the source material.

 

 

This requirement would only apply to those speaking against religion, right?

[EbonyBranch]

Dear Grahame, You've got more staying power than me mate. As our Lord Jesus said in his sermon on the mount, actually I'll paraphrase it: 'If they don't want to listen, walk away, knock the dust off your feet and sod em! Yes! I'm a Christian, but I'm a work in progress.

 

King James version

Matt 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15.Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city

 

New American Standard version

Matt 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

15."Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom

 

 

 

 

and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

 

I think Grahame enjoys these little chats. I know I do, and Grahame is an interesting foil.

[Grahame]

This requirement would only apply to those speaking against religion, right?

 

I post lots of material and always have done. Yesterday I posted about the church Barrack Obama used to attend for example. This morning I posted from ancient sources about Early Christians and their founder proving the life of Jesus. You atheists post nothing except personal opinion and much of that is misguided.

.