Cyclone Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by foo_fighter Yes, and some people have agreed with the theory I presented earlier, so that stands equally wouldn't you say? So we now have (at least) two valid versions of the same theory... ...can't understand why anybody thinks there's a problem. did someone agree with your definition (the one where nearly everyone is working class)? I guess if enough people agree with it then I have to accept it as valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone did someone agree with your definition (the one where nearly everyone is working class)? I guess if enough people agree with it then I have to accept it as valid. Cyclone, you really should read what other people post, 3 explicit affirmations, from 3 different people: "My Dad was a steel worker and considered himself very working class with a similar attitude to foo_fighters Dad." "I know a lot of people in my family who would agree with you there." "I agree with Foos fathers description." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ah yes, reading people's posts. to expand on the quote from Dawny which you say supported you. My Dad was a steel worker and considered himself very working class with a simialr attitiude to foo_fighters Dad. Anyone who wore a shirt and tie to work was not working class! ooooh, not quite so clear cut now is it. Unless people wearing a shirt and tie are considered not to be working at all by you and your dad? How close were the others to actually supporting you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 The shirt and tie bit is interesting, does it make a difference what you wear to work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone did someone agree with your definition (the one where nearly everyone is working class)? I guess if enough people agree with it then I have to accept it as valid. (I double posted) Well under the Marxist definition of class, where class defines the relationships to power, there are two classes - those that own the means of production and those that don't. Those that don't are in greater number than those who do. And Marx underpins most discussions on class in my experience. Foo is essentially correct in his assertion about the working class, and I agree that although many of us have the trappings of wealth and status, it does not alter our relationship to the means of production. The picture is confused by the existence of a complex welfare state, 'class mobility', de-industrialisation, trades unions etc, but there you are edit -- And as foo says we have all been talking at cross purposes about subtly different things because we don't have the same terms of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatalieSheff Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 does that mean it doesn tmatter where you have come from, but what you are doing now - work wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone ah yes, reading people's posts. to expand on the quote from Dawny which you say supported you. ooooh, not quite so clear cut now is it. Unless people wearing a shirt and tie are considered not to be working at all by you and your dad? How close were the others to actually supporting you? Argumentative, pedantic, where? Cyclone, you're the one with lots of time on your hands, search through and find them... ...oh, you already did, so you know they supported the argument more fully than dawny1 (that was an easy one to criticize anyway), dawny only said her fathers views were "similar", but never the less she expressed broad support for the idea (or, at least said her father did). Just to help, the other two were LoopyLou and missrabbit... ...go get 'em nit-picker! While your at it, re-read the whole thread (go on, you've got time), you'll find lots of different ideas, not just ones supporting you and t020. That after all is the point I was making, there isn't just one agreed version (like you so clearly seem to think there is). Late addition Oh, just noticed, Phan' has just added some some good points also, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 lol - I found the others already, but couldn't make a point with them so ignored them. I don't have time to re-read it all, our clearcase server just came back up so I have to do a bit of work (not too much mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by NatalieSheff does that mean it doesn’t matter where you have come from, but what you are doing now - work wise? Oh no, don't say that, without their parents status, and where they live, what will the "middle" class kids on here do to bolster their self worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatalieSheff Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 can i be a bit of both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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