t020 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Greenback Rubbish. If you mean knowing which wine glass to use for a glass of chardonnay, perhaps. But if you're talking ordinary, decent human kindness (which is what I take "manners" to mean), then you'll find that there is no division across social strata. Many an ignorant upper-class twit I have had the misfortune to meet. More like things such as remembering Ps & Qs, not spitting in the street, and yes table manners too. This is from my own personal experience, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbo Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by JonJParr I think there has been a push in recent years by a certain political party to demolish the class system in this country. A prime example is that of fox-hunting. Perceived by Labour to be a sport for the upper classes Ah, so that explains why Anne Widdicombe, Conservative MP, voted in favour of the abolition of hunting with dogs. Glad you cleared that up for me JonJParr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenback Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by t020 More like things such as remembering Ps & Qs, not spitting in the street, and yes table manners too. This is from my own personal experience, of course. Ah, see now you're talking about the things that really matter. I mean, how can you possibly expect to be respected as an equal member of society when you don't even know the difference between table water and tap water? And everyone knows that the well-to-do don't expectorate at all, even when out on the streets of Mayfair they find they have the most frightful greenie atop their tongue. As for addressing one's peers with the requisite "good day, sir" - those lower types, they don't even know where to begin! But seriously, you are turning into a self-parody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titian Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by t020 True, and it's *generally* those from wealthier backgrounds who have better manners. Hmmm *generally* money = manners?????????? sooooooo........Footballers don't spit? MP's don't fight? Royals don't get drunk and take drugs? shall I go on? Your point has massive flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by t020 ...1) I know it was, but you seem to have adopted it as your own definition too, and you're the one championing its cause on here, not your father... No, I'm attempting to debate around the issue, a fact that seems to have passed you bye completely. Originally posted by t020 ...2) So where would benefit recipients figure in your (father's) simplistic and pointless class model?... Go on, think about it, "working" people could be made unemployed, others could become bankrupt, and therefore de-facto unemployed, so the "benefit recipients" could be from any background. What, is that a problem, can't you look down on them as comfortably now? Originally posted by t020 ...3) It's flawed - what purpose does it possibly serve to put 99+% of people into one classification? It defeats the object of making the classification to begin with. It also lumps together groups of people who are poles apart, as my previous examples have suggested... Whereas putting 100% of the population into 3 groupings does to you? It seems quite “pointless” to quite a few people who have expressed views on this forum, virtually all industries (advertising etc.), and a number of learned texts it seems also. I think we've established what was being debated, the 3 "class" system is pretty much dead and buried, in all real terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by timo Cyclone is Prince Harry! I knew Cyclone was a rugged, manly type [Judo, Marine Reserves and all that], not some foppish theatrical type like his brother, Edward. No wonder the bugger is never off Sheffield Forum- he has all the time in the world as a Royal. His Royal Highness, Prince Cyclone...LOL! oh no, my cover has been blown. clearly income alone doesn't dictate class, which both myself and T020 have already said. So a footballer whilst having a large income won't generally have parents with a large income a high level of personal education, and probably is lacking in the cultural capitalism that timo and phan were talking about earlier. Manners doesn't equate to kindness, and neither is good manners the sole reserve of the upper class. Everyone not belonging to the house of Windsor (like my goodself now that you've blown my cover) is not bereft of manners and politeness. And of course there are examples of people with no manners throughout every strata of society. Here's one we haven't discussed, how does regional accent relate to class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone ...Here's one we haven't discussed, how does regional accent relate to class? Wouldn't we need an agreed model of "class" before we debated that? C'mon Harry, you can't catch us out that easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by Greenback But seriously, you are turning into a self-parody... Like some Viz character called "Ten-bob millionaire" or something, who secretly works in a scrap yard or sewage works but at home dresses for dinner, decants his Lambrini and is learning to play the harpsicord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by nick2 Like some Viz character called "Ten-bob millionaire" or something, who secretly works in a scrap yard or sewage works but at home dresses for dinner, decants his Lambrini and is learning to play the harpsichord. Isn't it interesting how it's always the "nouveau-rich" (or wannabes) who keep banging on about money and "class"... ...people with real class just get on with their lives (in my own personal experience, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titian Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by foo_fighter Isn't it interesting how it's always the "nouveau-rich" (or wannabes) who keep banging on about money and "class"... ...people with real class just get on with their lives (in my own personal experience, of course). and mine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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