timo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 What revolution might that be, Greeny? Don't tell me, the proletariat of Sheffield, class-consciousness burning in their breasts, will smash the chains of capitalism that bind them and seize the means of production? One is prepared for such unlikely contingencies. Should the red balloon ever go up, my New League of Empire Loyalists shall emerge to take power as the 'real' conservatives. Good, right-thinking posters such as the ferocious Foo Fighter, the stylish To20, and the erudite and urbane Jon J Parr will flock to nail their colours to its mast. Within our ranks will march the mighty ghosts of old England, and their strong arms shall reach down to guide us. 'Victory or Bolshevism' shall by our cry! There will be no 'glorious revolution' here. Bring back Feudalism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by foo_fighter Industry, including advertising use a lot more than your 3 classifications though, that's the point I was making. Only the lazy (like journalists), and delusional use the 3 class system anymore. It is still widely used though, however much you wish otherwise. Originally posted by foo_fighter By the way, your still arguing against a model I presented to show the absurdity of the "class" system, don't you realise that? You've changed your tune on that one then, haven't you? Why is the class system absurd anyway? Because you don't like it and it doesn't match your idealistic view of the world where everyone is equal? PS. You mean "you're". Originally posted by foo_fighter Yes, and some peoples opinions are clearly less relevant to a sensible discussion than others. Very witty, even if you did need to quote me out of context to achieve it. Originally posted by foo_fighter So, what on earth is that supposed to mean? Exactly what it said. To build on the point, Sheffield is predominantly a socialist city (just look at the overall Labour vote here, even in the 1980s where the party was dead in most parts of the UK). Therefore it's logical to assume that the views on a Sheffield based forum aren't likely to be representative of the whole country on the issue of class - something that socialists wish didn't exist. Originally posted by foo_fighter How is that relevant to the discussion at hand, are you saying the whole of one (of your) particular "classes" are chavs? "Chavs" are essentially the "underclass" - in my system that comes below working class, in your system they're upper class because they don't work. The fact that there is such a widespread, popular word amongst the youth of the country, which is implicitly class related and indulges in snobbery, shows that the class system is very much alive and well. Originally posted by foo_fighter Interestingly, the people trying to point out the error of your assertions are from a number of different political persuasions, haven't you noticed that? I've noticed that you, DanSumption and Greenback appear to be the same person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by timo What revolution might that be, Greeny?... ...Good, right-thinking posters such as the ferocious Foo Fighter, the stylish To20, and the erudite and urbane Jon J Parr will flock to nail their colours to its mast... Obviously not Timo, for I have fooled you and am indeed both Greenback and foo_fighter (well according to t020 anyway). t020, seriously, compose yourself man, you're loosing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenback Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by timo What revolution might that be, Greeny? Don't tell me, the proletariat of Sheffield, class-consciousness burning in their breasts, will smash the chains of capitalism that bind them and seize the means of production? One is prepared for such unlikely contingencies. Prepared? Pah! You won't have reckoned for the army of flying monkeys I've been seceretly training in a bunker underneath that bastion of workers' solidarity, the City Hall. There's one of the little scamps for every one of the good men unable to do a hard day's graft since the industries were ruthlessly dismantled... You have been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenback Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by t020 I've noticed that you, DanSumption and Greenback appear to be the same person. I'm Greenback! No, I'm DanSumption! No, I'm foo_fighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 The truth is revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by t020 Sheffield has a large socialist population who would rather that ideas such as class no longer existed. In reality, they still do. The political left have long been the champions of class and class consciousness. Your original loony lefty Karl Marx practically defined your use of the term 'class'. Your parody of the left wishing class away is completely misplaced and belies your shallow and incomplete understanding of the concept; especially the origins and use of the term...remember (or perhaps you don't) John Major and his "classless society"? - the capitalist meritocratic fantasy espoused in this country by the political right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by Phanerothyme The political left have long been the champions of class and class consciousness. Your original loony lefty Karl Marx practically defined your use of the term 'class'. Your parody of the left wishing class away is completely misplaced and belies your shallow and incomplete understanding of the concept; especially the origins and use of the term...remember (or perhaps you don't) John Major and his "classless society"? - the capitalist meritocratic fantasy espoused in this country by the political right... But it isn't "politically correct" to talk about class and define people in such a way. This is a trait of the lefty and is certainly seen throughout this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blademan Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 i have not read any of the other points in this thread so i'm sorry if i'm repeating here. i personally hold the idea of class very close to my heart. i'm all for it. sometimes you get people who are so upper/lower class they are bordering on being a cliché and i think that's a great thing in the diversity of this country. what is also great is how different classes of poeple can now live in harmony sonce the war when a whole mix of people had to come together in the fight for freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by t020 But it isn't "politically correct" to talk about class and define people in such a way. Define people in what way - you have never really managed to elucidate what it is you mean by class at all - trying to understand what you mean by it is particularly confusing sometimes. Originally posted by t020 This is a trait of the lefty and is certainly seen throughout this thread. That's completely in your imagination I'm afraid. What you have seen on this thread is a lot of people unafraid to voice their opions on class, from most corners of the political spectrum. Your lazy labelling of others as 'lefties' and 'politically correct' compounds your erroneous assumption that the left somehow wants to avoid the subject of class when the whole socialist struggle has been about the 'working class' and lefties of all creeds have been banging on about little else since the turn of the century. Your understanding of class and its relevance to the political left as a concept that underpins historical understanding of almost everything, needs some work. When did you stop studying history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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