JonJParr Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Has one gone to far when they quote themselves? It's Thursday today BTW - Timo you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 What this, Originally posted by Cyclone I think class does still exist, but the boundaries are less clearly defined than they used to be, and more factors now determine what class you consider yourself to be. Income, educational level, type of job and 'attitude' all contribute to making up what class you belong too. Personally, my parents and grandparents were working class, although having progressed in their careers I suppose they are now middle class. I'm middle class (i think). I don't think working class is anyone that earns a wage. That would leave a incredibly small middle class and even smaller upper class. I think the idea about shirt and tie is closer, although we have a business casual dress code, so no tie for me. I think that working in a service industry is definitely being part way to middle class, although it would depend on what level you work at I suppose. oh yes, just what I asked for. So since the whole countries income is increasingly based on the service sector, does that mean we'll soon be 99% "middle class", yeah, that makes so much more sense than being 99% "working class". Let's all rush out and buy a tie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Response to the edit Originally posted by Cyclone I never suggested that hard and fast rules can be applied to neatly split everyone into one of the 3 groups. But I put forward my thoughts and disagreed with your proposition. You do seem to be taking it all rather personally though. Cyclone, I am not taking it personally, but you are "arguing against" the points I raised, no one elses, so I will answer. Would you care to try a sensible answer yourself, come on, stop being woolly, give a definition, you seem so sure what you disagree with, what do you actually agree with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 well, i suppose at the point when there's no-one left in the traditional "working class" bracket you have to stop using the 3 class breakdown (even if you're lazy) and use one that has some meaning. But we're still quite some way from everyone working in the service sector. I did also qualify that. Someone who stacks shelves is working in the service sector, or serves on a till, but I doubt they'd consider themselves middle class. Maybe you can also apply some comparison to the average wage, greater than it, or 25%> or maybe 50%>. And educational level, A-level or degree as a minimum maybe? Maybe pass times and hobbies should be considered. + points for listening to classical music and being familiar with classical literature??? You could do a quick quiz to ascertain your level of cultural capitalism (see I did learn something), and in combination with points from income, education, type of job, level of job (compared to age), this could give you an overall score. The overall score then maps to a distribution which tells you what class you are in with a 95% certainty interval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone well, i suppose... ...But... ...Maybe... ...average wage... ...or maybe... ...as a minimum maybe?... ...Maybe... ...You could... ...and in combination with... ...this could... ...The overall score then maps to a distribution which tells you what class you are in with a 95% certainty interval. Well, thanks for telling us what you think, with clear definitions... ...I know exactly what you were trying to say all along now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonJParr Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Sheesh! Can this thread be sustained until 4pm? Then we can take a break until 5.30pm or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by foo_fighter Well, thanks for telling us what you think, with clear definitions... ...I know exactly what you were trying to say all along now. what are you expecting. I've put some ideas forward there for discussion. If you like take out the maybe's and pretend I said it all authoritively as if I knew I was correct. let me try it and see if you prefer it; This is to identify people as working class or not, upper class will be covered in our second lecture. Firstly look at which sector of the economy they work in, primary and secondary are weighted towards working class, tertiary is weighted towards not working class. 0 points for primary, 5 for secondary and 10 for tertiary. Apply acomparison to the average wage; 0 points for <0.5 * average 5 points for 0.5 - 1 * average. 10 points for 1 - 1.5 * average 15 points >1.5 * average Then educational level, 0 points for < A - level 5 points for A-level 10 points for degree level. 15 points for >degree level. As an exercise design a quick quiz to determine the level of cultural capitalism someone possess. Design it to return a score between 0 and 15. The overall score then maps to a distribution which tells you what class you are in with a 95% certainty interval. Out of a max of 55 points. Working class is anyone lying below 20 points. Is that concrete enough for you. It's all completely off the top of my head, so if you have a valid argument against something i'm liable to just agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonJParr Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone As an exercise design a quick quiz to determine the level of cultural capitalism someone possess. Design it to return a score between 0 and 15. Is this along the right lines? Q: How many Starbucks beverages, on average, do you consume per week? A: None B: 1 C: 2-3 D: More than 3 (apparently you're evil) Gosh I really should get this report done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Cyclone I think the point we were originally arguing against is that Foo's father takes a commonly used phrase (whether it be a lazy one to use or not) and assigns an uncommon meaning to it... ...so unless it's a discussion between foo and his dad then using that definition is silly... Well, using that definition, at least me, my father, Dawny1s dad, a lot of people in LoopyLous family, and missrabbit, would know what we were talking about. With your new system, Originally posted by Cyclone This is to identify people as working class or not, upper class will be covered in our second lecture. Firstly look at which sector of the economy they work in, primary and secondary are weighted towards working class, tertiary is weighted towards not working class. 0 points for primary, 5 for secondary and 10 for tertiary. Apply acomparison to the average wage; 0 points for <0.5 * average 5 points for 0.5 - 1 * average. 10 points for 1 - 1.5 * average 15 points >1.5 * average Then educational level, 0 points for < A - level 5 points for A-level 10 points for degree level. 15 points for >degree level. As an exercise design a quick quiz to determine the level of cultural capitalism someone possess. Design it to return a score between 0 and 15. The overall score then maps to a distribution which tells you what class you are in with a 95% certainty interval. Out of a max of 55 points. Working class is anyone lying below 20 points. it looks like you'll be sat in a very small room talking to yourself. I'm so glad we are discussing a system that is so clearly defined that everyone knows immediately what they are discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by JonJParr Is this along the right lines? Q: How many Starbucks beverages, on average, do you consume per week? A: None B: 1 C: 2-3 D: More than 3 (apparently you're evil) Gosh I really should get this report done. might be rather biased against people who don't like coffee or live outside the city. C- could do better. Look ff - I have no idea what point you imagine you are proving, but frankly you're wasting my time. You asked for a concrete definition of something that isn't all that concrete and ridicule it when I present it. Is that your idea of discussion or did you give up discussion at some point in this thread? Just accept that I don't like your definition of working class as I think it's pointless and I'll accept that you don't care what my definition is and never actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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