God does NOT exist!

[Digsy]

Yes, but "Godwilling I'll go to heaven" or whatever it was is not an ethical statement. An ethical statement, that is, a statement of ethics, is along the lines of "It's wrong to hurt the innocent" or "Abortion is wrong" etc. Yours was, at best, a theological statement.

 

Try this analogy: If I'd asked for an ethical statement that an astrologer could make that an non-believer in astrology couldn't make, "Jupiter is ascendent, therefore I'll have a good day" would not satisfy the request.

 

So would you prefer me to phrase it like this.

 

Its wrong to deny God.

 

One that an athiest cannot make, but in my eyes the only difference between the above statement and the original one I posted is that the original one includes the above statement as well as every other ethical statement.

But for your benefit I've narrowed it down to just the one statement, even though this one statement does not include all the other statements that can be claimed within the 'God willing I'll go to heaven".

Edited April 26, 2009 by Digsy

[evildrneil]

God DOES exist - I prayed that I would wake up this morning and guess what I did Ergo (by your logic anyway) there must be a god

 

[EbonyBranch]

Why not?

As I understand it, God will judge me when I die, my ethics and performance may grant me passage.

So God willing I'll pass the gates of heaven.

 

I don't have to wait until I die to make a statement.

 

I asked: "Name me an ethical statement made or action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.

 

Now name me an evil action or statement made by a believer because of their faith"

 

You just expressed your belief that, if you're good enough, god might let you into heaven. That's not an ethical statement, it's a theological statement.

 

I might make the ethical statement that: "It's wrong to steal" and then we can argue about whether that statement holds true in every situation (is it wrong to steal from a rich, selfish person to feed a starving child, etc.) and whether an atheist and a theist have equal access to that ethical statement (if your god says it's wrong to steal, can stealing ever be justified, etc.).

 

I notice you've ignored the second part of the challenge, which to my mind is the more ...er...challenging bit.

[Ghozer]

*awaits mods to lock the thread*

[EbonyBranch]

So would you prefer me to phrase it like this.

 

Its wrong to deny God.

 

One that an athiest cannot make, but in my eyes the only difference between the above statement and the original one I posted is that the original one includes the above statement as well as every other ethical statement.

But for your benefit I've narrowed it down to just the one statement, even though this one statement does not include all the other statements that can be claimed within the 'God willing I'll go to heaven".

 

I'm afraid there are plenty of atheists who would agree with your statement! There are more 'believers-in-belief' than just plain believers. The set of 'Believers-in-belief' includes all believers plus those who don't themselves believe, but do think that belief is a useful tool to keep the proles in check, or acts as a crutch to comfort the infirm or poor, or provides a good moral framework for believers. There are far too many atheists who would agree that it is wrong to challenge anyone's belief in god, for all kinds of reasons.

 

Try again!

Edited April 26, 2009 by EbonyBranch
clarity

[Bloomdido]

Why not?

As I understand it, God will judge me when I die, my ethics and performance may grant me passage.

So God willing I'll pass the gates of heaven.

 

I don't have to wait until I die to make a statement.

 

By your criteria, there are many millions of people going to Hell simply because they aren't Christians despite how 'good' they might have been. Such a loving God is yours.

[Leon_1993]

By your criteria, there are many millions of people going to Hell simply because they aren't Christians despite how 'good' they might have been. Such a loving God is yours.

 

lol nice one

[pcspb1]

Religion is about choice. If it's your choice to believe in God, that's great! If it's your choice not to believe in God, then that's great too!!

 

It's my choice to have Tuna, Cheese, and Onion on a sandwich, it might not be yours, you might like Ham & Egg, does it make us different people?

 

I think that sums it all up

[AJ sheffield]

Religion is about choice. If it's your choice to believe in God, that's great! If it's your choice not to believe in God, then that's great too!!

 

It's my choice to have Tuna, Cheese, and Onion on a sandwich, it might not be yours, you might like Ham & Egg, does it make us different people?

 

I think that sums it all up

 

You should be ashamed of yourself, all that on one sandwich

[MrEngland]

I know, we've already established that.

 

Go on then MrEngland, since you're so keen to talk about me, why am I a hypocrite?

 

Ive no idea why you are a hypocryte. Maybe you were abused as a child or somthing but if you look at my post again youll see i showed how you were being hypocrytical with the quoyed posts.