EbonyBranch Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 The rules of combat were that people were humanly given the opportunity to surrender thus ensuring their safety. They would be subordinate but they would be protected from other nations because they now belonged to Israel and they would have been relatively free to live their lives as they always had done. Should they choose not to surrender then it would be a fight to the death but the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city would be safe and looked after by the Israelites as there were no men of the city to care for the women and children and the Bible is very clear that they should be looked after. . "Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei. But the LORD told me, 'Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.' So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all. We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan. These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. We also took many unwalled villages at the same time. We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns." (Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT) After this, David subdued and humbled the Philistines by conquering Gath, their largest city. David also conquered the land of Moab. He made the people lie down on the ground in a row, and he measured them off in groups with a length of rope. He measured off two groups to be executed for every one group to be spared. The Moabites who were spared became David's servants and brought him tribute money. (2 Samuel 8:1-2 NLT) Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) 2 This is what the LORD of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt.3 Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation—men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys." 4 So Saul mobilized his army at Telaim. There were 200,000 soldiers from Israel and 10,000 men from Judah.5 Then Saul and his army went to a town of the Amalekites and lay in wait in the valley.6 Saul sent this warning to the Kenites: "Move away from where the Amalekites live, or you will die with them. For you showed kindness to all the people of Israel when they came up from Egypt." So the Kenites packed up and left. 7 Then Saul slaughtered the Amalekites from Havilah all the way to Shur, east of Egypt.8 He captured Agag, the Amalekite king, but completely destroyed everyone else.9 Saul and his men spared Agag's life and kept the best of the sheep and goats, the cattle, the fat calves, and the lambs—everything, in fact, that appealed to them. They destroyed only what was worthless or of poor quality. (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NLT) They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT) Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 You are taking things out of context like all atheists do. Deuteronomy 20 is about when the Israelites were going into the Promised Land. The passages you have given are when people disregard the Lord God like this, "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people." This is precisely what you and your fellow atheists are doing by promoting promiscuity even among children by showing them how to use condoms, as a result there was a plague [sTi?} and promiscuity was not the only thing they were doing. In addition they had turned many of the Israelites against God. This is something else you atheists are seeking to do and turn people away from God. This is a different kettle of fish to my reply to plekhanov and is an altogether more serious issue. First you deny the inerrancy of the Bible and you say none of these things ever happened and these places never existed etc. etc. Now you quote it when it suits you and that is typical of the hypocrisy of atheists. Your downfall is that you chose to ignore the the Word of God and as a result this is what will happen to you and others like you who deny the Bible, who deny the existence of God and who seek to turn people away from him and this is what you are doing with all of your heart and mind and all the energy you can muster. The trouble is that innocents are affected as well and you will have them on your Conscience also. You need to heed the Word of God, for tomorrow [not literally] you die. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It's getting silly now, all the pros are quoting scripture as are all the cons. Maybe you are agreed on one thing, there's plenty to go at in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 You are taking things out of context like all atheists do. . Do you realise what you sound like? Are all christians the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 You are taking things out of context like all atheists do. Deuteronomy 20 is about when the Israelites were going into the Promised Land. The passages you have given are when people disregard the Lord God like this, "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people." This is precisely what you and your fellow atheists are doing by promoting promiscuity even among children by showing them how to use condoms, as a result there was a plague [sTi?} and promiscuity was not the only thing they were doing. In addition they had turned many of the Israelites against God. This is something else you atheists are seeking to do and turn people away from God. This is a different kettle of fish to my reply to plekhanov and is an altogether more serious issue. First you deny the inerrancy of the Bible and you say none of these things ever happened and these places never existed etc. etc. Now you quote it when it suits you and that is typical of the hypocrisy of atheists. Your downfall is that you chose to ignore the the Word of God and as a result this is what will happen to you and others like you who deny the Bible, who deny the existence of God and who seek to turn people away from him and this is what you are doing with all of your heart and mind and all the energy you can muster. The trouble is that innocents are affected as well and you will have them on your Conscience also. You need to heed the Word of God, for tomorrow [not literally] you die. . That's not a rebuttal. That's just empty bluster. I don't think that much of the old testament is literally true; a lot is legendary (like our Arthurian legends), mythical or political. Thousands of years ago primitive tribes did nasty things to each other and called themselves 'righteous'. I've read that Abraham and Moses are among the more obviously mythical figures, but for all i care they may have really existed and really have done many of the things attributed to them, including the evil stuff. I don't care; if it happened at all it happened thousands of years ago and hundreds of miles away. Yhvh's previous form for attrocities is not my problem; it's xtianity's. Xtians worship this imaginary bloodthirsty tyrant, and defend his 'alleged' actions with weasel words of evasion and deceit. Whether i believe yhvh exists or not, if you believe that the old testament is historically and theologically accurate yhvh repeatedly commits, orders and endorses acts of monstrous savagery. There is no[/] justification for genocide. Ever. Anyone who commits it is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 That's not a rebuttal. That's just empty bluster. I don't think that much of the old testament is literally true; a lot is legendary (like our Arthurian legends), mythical or political. Thousands of years ago primitive tribes did nasty things to each other and called themselves 'righteous'. I've read that Abraham and Moses are among the more obviously mythical figures, but for all i care they may have really existed and really have done many of the things attributed to them, including the evil stuff. I don't care; if it happened at all it happened thousands of years ago and hundreds of miles away. Yhvh's previous form for attrocities is not my problem; it's xtianity's. Xtians worship this imaginary bloodthirsty tyrant, and defend his 'alleged' actions with weasel words of evasion and deceit. Whether i believe yhvh exists or not, if you believe that the old testament is historically and theologically accurate yhvh repeatedly commits, orders and endorses acts of monstrous savagery. There is no[/] justification for genocide. Ever. Anyone who commits it is evil. If the British courts administer Justice it is not genocide. More than that they have to administer the law. God is a God of Justice and a very fair and loving God as well. http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/justiceofgod.html . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlin Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 If the British courts administer Justice it is not genocide. More that that they have to administer the law. God is a God of Justice and a very fair and loving God as well. http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/justiceofgod.html . God is a figment of your imagination Grahame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 If the British courts administer Justice it is not genocide. More that that they have to administer the law. God is a God of Justice and a very fair and loving God as well. http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/justiceofgod.html . "If the British courts administer Justice it is not genocide." Relevance? You know what..? Stalin was a nice guy. I mean; really. He liked kids, he liked dogs, he defended Russia against the Nazis...what's that? Purges? Oh yeah, but that was just his absolute justice; it was a tough time for Russia someone had to impose righteous laws on the people and execute them righteously. Justice was not an optional product of his will, but an unchangeable principle of his very nature. In remunerative justice he distributed rewards. In vindictive or punitive justice, he inflicted punishment on account of transgression. He could not, being righteous, do otherwise than regard and hate disloyalty as intrinsically hateful and deserving of punishment. His essential and eternal righteousness immutably determines him to visit every sin with merited punishment. And if that meant purging the innocent and staging show trials, well...he did save Russia from the Nazis, right? And some of those gulag-dodgers might have been traitors, right? And a survey in late 2006 found that 47 per cent of Russians viewed Stalin as a positive figure. So he must have been good and the mass murder and genocide must have been justified... ...after all; even god sometimes kills the innocent.... ....right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 If the British courts administer Justice it is not genocide. More that that they have to administer the law. God is a God of Justice and a very fair and loving God as well. http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/justiceofgod.html . Justice: the quality of being just, impartial, or fair (Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law) Genocide: the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. A legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Genocide is never justice. If you think otherwise, please explain. Deuteronomy 20:16-18 "16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God." Is this justice or genocide? So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all... We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns." (Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT) Justice or genocide? Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock..."The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Justice or genocide? "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) Justice or genocide? This is what the LORD of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt.3 Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation—men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys."(1 Samuel 15:2-3 NLT) Justice or genocide? In all of these case and ignoring the massacres of adults for now, what could the children, babies and livestock possibly have been guilty of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 You are taking things out of context I agree. To condemn Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot for the atrocities committed under their respective reigns is also taking things out of context; it ignores the tremendous orderliness they brought to society. Trains always ran on time, etc.... Grahame,honestly mate; how can you bear to look yourself in the mirror after dismissing genocide as "taking things out of context"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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