efjcomputer Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 F0rd said ---Quote (Originally by efjcomputer)--- Why do you think that is god's job to get rid of cancer and poverty etc. If God put man in charge of the world (and the Bibles says He did) then it is man's job. So blame man not God. ---End Quote--- This should be fun, i'll bite, where what verse... The reference is Genesis 1:27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female. 28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth. That sounds like 'in charge' to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 ;5019411']You didn't even understand the video did you? I've emboldened the important part of your post which perfectly explains my position. I AM keeping an open mind and will accept the existence of a god pending such evidence but that requires decent quality evidence to be put forward and as such there isn't any. This thread has reached over 90 pages and 1800 posts without any 'evidence' other that claims and explanations about the universe that can be explained by science without the need for any supernatural input. Other than that this thread has degenerated into arguing the toss about minor differences in a bronze age text that I see hardly any value in. You would think by now at least someone would have provided us with even a small shred of decent evidence for us non believers to contemplate but that's not the case. As such that's simply not good enough for me to be persuaded either way and explains why I'm not a believer. Just to point out where you're going wrong I've timed linked the most important section of the video for you which explains my position perfectly. You should watch from there to just past 5 minutes where the guy in the yellow shirt makes the false assertion that the other person is saying that because they don't hold his belief then that means he's sure it cannot be true. This is not what he's saying at all and its not what I'm saying either.... That is you though isn't it Matt, you are rehearsing your own prejudices because your mind is closed even though you say is isn't and the evidence for that is that you want proof, and until that happens your mind is closed. I really must go Mat so I will say goodbye and God bless. Yours, Grahame. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0rd Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 ;5019464']Not always true. Sir Francis Drake whilst a national hero from the perspective of the British was an Elizabethan pirate and privateer given sanction by the queen herself to conduct his activities which included the abduction and trade of slaves and piracy against numerous Spanish ships and ports. I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efjcomputer Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Every Christian has doubts occasionally so I can type that out without a problem. I am open to the possibility that there may be no God. I am a Christian and I am NOT open to the possibility that there is no God. To be open to that possibility would get me nowhere because if God does not exist then being open to the possibility that he does not exist will make no difference in the end but if he does exist then it just might. Believing in God has enriched my life, why should I want to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0rd Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 F0rd said ---Quote (Originally by efjcomputer)--- Why do you think that is god's job to get rid of cancer and poverty etc. If God put man in charge of the world (and the Bibles says He did) then it is man's job. So blame man not God. ---End Quote--- This should be fun, i'll bite, where what verse... The reference is Genesis 1:27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female. 28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth. That sounds like 'in charge' to me. Are you sure you are ignoring the meaning of what the verse is trying to say: "And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth." Looks like it's a ordinance from God to utilize the creatures for our food. Not: "Why do you think that is god's job to get rid of cancer and poverty etc. If God put man in charge of the world (and the Bibles says He did) then it is man's job. So blame man not God." A wider reading, seems to support Psalms 8 "6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas." Also one could argue it is also God's fault seeing how he is omniscient, he should have known better that we would do such a poor job, to which he abdicated the position knowingly to humans, with the knowledge we would not be able to fulfill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 "well i think you've just neatly sidestepped the main point of my post" - something you guys seem fond of picking up on, but something i don't usually bother to follow up as i figure you may have a problem addressing it for some reason , and i'm not one to bully for an answer. So - my points/questions again, and could you expand a bit on why you think it's the healthiest way to bring up a child? I appreciate you may be out of your comfort zone (adressing what you feel to be pretentions nonsense) but give it a go Sure I'll try and be clearer this time. But I am interested in how you guys have come to think they way you do. I find it extreem, and spiritually stifling,There is no such thing as a spirit so I do not have one to stifle, neither do you. The phrase 'spiritually stifling' is completely meaningless to me. The sensation that you might call 'spiritual fulfilment' or something (I don't know how you'd describe it) is just happiness to me, I don't need a spirit to experience joy, love, and pain. but it brings you satisfaction somehow. I do understand that radically living out what you see to be true is satisfying, and congruent, but it can mean that you become blind to life and truth that exists outside it, On the contrary, I am completely open to life and everything it involves, I am open to the possibility of there being something 'outside of life' but until there is some evidence for it it is not a possibility worth considering. I look forward to new experiences and base my knowledge on what I observe, whilst remaining sceptical of even myself, I don't think there could be a more open way you could live. this as always is totally fine unless it harms some one else. What is your take on that? I am a pacifist, my outlook on life does not cause harm to others.Do you think that your view on reality is a healthy one, for example, to bring up children in?"Yes, if I have kids in the future I will bring them up to analyse things critically and think sceptically about any extraordinary claims. And I think that is the best mindset to bring up a child in, teach them to think critically and analyse things properly then let them make their own mind up about nonsense merchants like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Every Christian has doubts occasionally so I can type that out without a problem. I am open to the possibility that there may be no God. I do not have any doubts now but we all need to question and because of the questions you and others have asked my faith has become stronger. But if someone takes on-board Christianity they need to satisfy themselves they are doing the right thing. It is not a blind faith and it needs to be built on a firm foundation. You have completly contradicted yourself. In the first post you said that you are open to the possibility there there may be no god but in the second you have said that you have no doubts. It can't be both so which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I am a Christian and I am NOT open to the possibility that there is no God. To be open to that possibility would get me nowhere because if God does not exist then being open to the possibility that he does not exist will make no difference in the end but if he does exist then it just might. OK then, how about this one. Are you open to the possibility that you are wrong about god? Are you open to the possibility that the Bible was written entirely without divine intervention? Are you open to the possibility that the one true God is in fact me, Flamingjimmy, and that the way to paradise in the afterlife is by playing frizbee with me? If the answers to these questions are not yes (with whatever qualifier you like) then you are closed minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 You have completly contradicted yourself. In the first post you said that you are open to the possibility there there may be no god but in the second you have said that you have no doubts. It can't be both so which one is it? As a young Christian you ask questions and when you find answers your faith becomes stronger and whereas like doubting Thomas we can all have doubts from time to time as you grow stronger in the Lord your faith becomes stronger. It is about growing in grace which you would not understand but perhaps you might remember your first wobbly attempts at riding a bicycle until you become stronger in what you do and then you might become another Malcolm Elliott. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Matt] Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 As a young Christian you ask questions and when you find answers your faith becomes stronger and whereas like doubting Thomas we can all have doubts from time to time as you grow stronger in the Lord your faith becomes stronger. It is about growing in grace which you would not understand but perhaps you might remember your first wobbly attempts at riding a bicycle until you become stronger in what you do and then you might become another Malcolm Elliott. . Faith is not a virtue. I point to my signature at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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