Digsy Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer. God willing I'll pass through the gates of heaven. Didn't really need much thought on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 You never answered what is imiginary or what is passed onto you and what you believe in yourself as a result of your experiences. which is the question I asked. Well for one thing I feel you're using the term imaginary in a perjorative fashion and for another when I said 'I have asked and answered those questions' I meant that I have asked and answered them of myself. I choose not to share my feelings about it on here. I don't mean anything, I merely asked you the question above and I would hope for some feedback if you ever expect some from me in the future. That's fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomdido Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I wonder what God's job description would look like. It would have to make reference to 'moving in mysterious ways.' Is He is on a 'fixed term contract' and what would happen to us if he retired? I wonder what does He do with His leisure time. He could visit Earth as a mystery shopper, but does being omnipotent takes some of the fun away? Perhaps he is busy creating other universes, hence the lack of plague, pestilance, smiting etc over the last couple of millennia. However he could have sub-contracted the operation to someone in his absence. I really do feel that God has been neglecting things of late, which may not be a bad thing as He was responsible for the slaughter of a good few million people. I also think He enjoys the controversy He causes. Otherwise He would have done something to silence the doubters and worshipers of false idols. He made us in His image but do we have the same emotional capacity as God? If so, he must get upset when all the nice fluffy animals get drowned in floods and he must get angry with all the nasty terrorists. He sent two bears to kill some children just for insulting a bald man. His job script really should spell out the need for consistency, particularly regarding equality of opportunity. God doesn't seem to be on record as promoting the rights of Gays or Women. He built a world that is 3/4 sea and then designed us to live on land, much of which looks pretty but is uninhabitable. He then let the world become over populated, banned birth control and didn't supply enough raw materials, particularly crude oil (Of course He may well know that we are going to invent the 'anti gravity drive in 2030, so it won't be an issue). Could it be that God told us he is omnipotent but still has some way to go? I feel that my faith is being tested and I am sorry but I want some proof that He is still up to the job or at least meets the minimum person specification. What if He has given up on the job and not told anyone? Who is He accountable to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I think that poster was highlighting the fact that any God if She/He existed, would never see evil performed on this earth as is does. Why? Yiu decide what to do- you have a choice. God is not responsible for the actions of humans. Do you think a God can be male or female out of all the Gods on this earth? Do you think a cow can be sacred for example? Maybe you can ask that to a hindu... To your way of thinking then, who made Hitler? People maybe? Why does the murder of Jews upset you so much in your deliverance or protection of a certain people, are you Jewish? Same point as above- the actions of men (evil) are to them not God. I used Hitler as an example but I can use any example where on has commited evil- it happens around the world. Power and Greed drives it.[/color] You obviously realise its not a Gods fault so it must be a person or people through greed surely? If a God cannot stop someone committing crimes then surely democracy and man made law stops all that nasty stuff? God is obsolete in all this as he has no say and isn't proven, surely? Why does God need to stop it? At end of the day, God knows you are going to die and He has all the time in the world... An eye for an eye is an old testament term that would would make the world go blind but you condone war and an eye for an eye on the other hand do you not? What is tyranny in your book that you try to disguise your meaning so much when it suits you over religion? You seem to think that ridding the world of evil people is okay? Who decides who is evil in your mind? I believe in self defence- as I am sure you do. I do not believe in injustice and murder, tyrancy, prejudism etc. I believe in capital punishment- I believe that when there is irrefutable evidence of someones guilt of a serious crime against humanity, then I stand for the DP. And believing in a faith is logic? I'm all ears to your explanation. Logic when you look at it factually and desist on using emotion and personal 'worldviews' of an religion. It goes without saying that absolutely nothing can be proved, confirmed or established through emotion- but by logically and rationally looking at facts. Anyway, the belief in a God or no God is personal to an individual. I think someone mentioned that earlier and until someone comes to me and PROVES with EVIDENCE that God does not EXIST- using logic and rational, giving 'evidence to support their view (as you can't prove a negative but you can use 'evidence to support an idea/views- which no atheist has EVER done)..until then I will continue believing in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) God willing I'll pass through the gates of heaven. Didn't really need much thought on that one. The lack of thought shows. How is that an ethical statement? Perhaps I should help you out: "It's wrong to hurt people unnecessarily" is an ethical statement. "God willing I'll pass through the gates of heaven" is a faith statement. Edited April 26, 2009 by EbonyBranch typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 He built a world that is 3/4 sea and then designed us to live on land, much of which looks pretty but is uninhabitable. He then let the world become over populated, banned birth control and didn't supply enough raw materials, particularly crude oil (Of course He may well know that we are going to invent the 'anti gravity drive in 2030, so it won't be an issue). ? As any fule no, we don't need to look after the earth or conserve its resources because Jebus is coming back soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Logic when you look at it factually and desist on using emotion and personal 'worldviews' of an religion. It goes without saying that absolutely nothing can be proved, confirmed or established through emotion- but by logically and rationally looking at facts. Anyway, the belief in a God or no God is personal to an individual. I think someone mentioned that earlier and until someone comes to me and PROVES with EVIDENCE that God does not EXIST- using logic and rational, giving 'evidence to support their view (as you can't prove a negative but you can use 'evidence to support an idea/views- which no atheist has EVER done)..until then I will continue believing in God. Ok, we can't really have this discussion with out knowing precisely what you do believe, so please tell us. Which xtian denomination do you belong to? What do you actually believe? Are there any bits of the bible or your church's dogma you don't believe? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I wonder what God's job description would look like. It would have to make reference to 'moving in mysterious ways.' Is He is on a 'fixed term contract' and what would happen to us if he retired? Which one would you like to choose? King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Soveriegn, Creator, I Am. Just to name a few. I wonder what does He do with His leisure time. He could visit Earth as a mystery shopper, but does being omnipotent takes some of the fun away? Perhaps he is busy creating other universes, hence the lack of plague, pestilance, smiting etc over the last couple of millennia. However he could have sub-contracted the operation to someone in his absence. Pig Flu, Tsunami's, Earth Quakes. It was only two years ago when Sheffield flooded, was this down to lack of decent drainage or an act of God? Insurance companies like to use the latter, no matter if they are athiests or not enforcing such policies, ironic huh. I really do feel that God has been neglecting things of late, which may not be a bad thing as He was responsible for the slaughter of a good few million people. I also think He enjoys the controversy He causes. Otherwise He would have done something to silence the doubters and worshipers of false idols. Gods intentions are written in revelations. Can't really be bothered to post in repsonse to the rest of your post, good luck with holding onto your faith though mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEngland Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Listen bro, Halibut's completely right in this case. You have proved nothing with your little example, you cannot prove god doesn't exist. Well perhaps you can, but you certainly have not done so here on this thread. Oh, and look at my posting history if you like, you'll find I'm one of the more ardent advocates of atheism on this forum. You're making us look bad! No im not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) The lack of thought shows. How is that an ethical statement? Its my morality and performance and the will of God that may ensure passage. Not much for lack of thought, not much to think about on it, would you rather me go into the whole morality and performance issue when there is no need? And if so would you prefer me to give a statement that applies to your conditions? Edited April 26, 2009 by Digsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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